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marnixR
Post  Post subject: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:50 am
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from the other thread in cognitive science :

Futilitist wrote:
I have begun a discussion on the science of Futilitism (yes, Futilitism is a science as well as a philosophy!) in the ...


which set me on a train of thought that appeared off-topic from the main discussion, that's why i started a thread on the topic of "what exactly IS futilitism ?"

because i haven't been able to find any reference to it on the internet (apart from sites where Futilitist is active), nor have i ever encountered the term elsewhere in life

so, i repeat my question : what is futilitism, and how is it a philosophy as well as a science ? (let's try to keep this discussion separate from the one in cognitive science by staying with the subject of what futilitism represents)

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tridimity
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:59 am

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Futilitism is pointlessness. If futilitism is a philosophy or a Science, as far as I can tell, it has only one adherent - whose mission it is to waste time.

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bunbury
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:31 pm
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Bingo.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:58 pm
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Perhaps it's the philosophy of making it futile to engage in productive discussion with others.

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GiantEvil
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:37 am
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Futile, pointless, yep.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 5:32 pm
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iNow wrote:
Perhaps it's the philosophy of making it futile to engage in productive discussion with others.


indeed - i find it rather confusing that someone sets up a whole thread on a particular topic and then willingly lets it go off-topic by concentrating on the side issue of ad homs
and when people want to bring the thread back on topic, then insist that the off-topic part of the thread is now the main topic

go figure

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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:37 pm
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I believe I have addressed one possible explanation for that in the thread itself. Futilitist may be conducting a deliberate experiment different from the one he claims to be interested in running, wherein he is manipulating participants to behave in certain ways.

As an aside does anyone find it odd that someone so focused on group think should choose a names with so many I's in it?


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:51 am
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Are you all afraid of me? Why are you discussing a word that I clearly made up without even inviting me? How could this be productive? Do you think you can figure it out without me? I'll just kick back and listen. Let's see what you come up with.

Or maybe you could just ask me. :ugeek:


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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:08 am
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Futilitist wrote:
Why are you discussing a word that I clearly made up without even inviting me?
As you may have noted, I made a contribution to the discussion. Tell me Futilitist, was I invited? True, you have no way of knowing for sure, but do you think I was invited? Do you imagine I was sent a pm, an e-mail, or perhaps even called by phone? I ask this question of you quite seriously.

I hope you realise that, of course, I received no direct invitation. How then did I know this thread existed? How did I know, broadly speaking, its subject? In the same way that you knew it existed and what it was about: the thread was publicly visible and accessible and came with a title that gave some clue as to its content.

Fair enough, but how did I know it was acceptable to partiticpate in the thread? Again, because it was publicly visible in the forum. All active members are permitted, even encouraged to participate in current threads. There is an implicit invitation to do so.

Therefore, contrary to your assertion, you were invited to participate. If the thread starter had not wished to have you participate they could have........Hmmm, there is no practical way, without being Machiavellian, that they could have done this.

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Are you all afraid of me?
I can, and do, only speak for myself, but what is there to be afraid of? I see nothing.You are asking this, I guess, in order to seek the motivation for the thread. I may be able to help you there, with another guess.

I think you seriously pissed Marnix off and he started this thread to poke fun at you. When you make unwarranted accusations against a decent person like Marnix then you may expect some bite-back. You got it in this thread. Personally, I think opening it was the wrong thing to do, or certainly the OP had inappropriate content, but I can understand Marnix's frustration. Do you understand that you are the source of that frustration?

The question in my mind remains, did you deliberately seek to induce that frustration, or do you really not know you are behaving like an asshole. Was that an ad hominem? I'm not sure. I was directing it against your behaviour, not against you. Your behaviour is bizarre, but is it deliberate?

You explained earlier in the other thread that you had deliberately set up a situation on another forum that led to you being banned. When iNow suggested such deceitful (my word, not his) behaviour was often called trolling you reacted strongly. iNow insisted he was not calling you a troll. Frankly, I think he may have been trying a little to hard to be diplomatic in order to keep the discussion going. I think he called you a troll and, if you did what you say you did, then absolutely you were trolling. If it walks like a duck, quacks and lays eggs, it's probably a duck.

And here you come, open a thread, and behave in a passive-aggressive manner, that in the last third or so of that thread becomes openly aggressive. You resist many reasonable attempts to move forward with the declared intent of the thread and offend some of the other participants. It looks suspisciously like trolling to me.

On the other hand, if you genuinely were trying to explore your theory of the scapegoat,etc, what have you actually achieved? You have learned that if you go onto a forum and poke people they will react. Their reactions will have a lot in common because they are receiving the same stimulus, not because they are victims, or practitioners of group think.

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How could this be productive? Do you think you can figure it out without me?
The object of this OP is not, as far as I can see, to figure out the meaning of the word futilitist. The function of the thread is similar to a water cooler conversation about a strange and unexpected happening. The kind of conversation where people say things like "Wow, what was all that about?", "What the hell was he thinking?".

So, if you want to clarify things why not let me know which, if any, of my two hypotheses for your motives are valid. If you don't want to reveal it just yet, since the experiment is still in progress, you could always pm me, although I don't know what the group would think about that.


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SkinWalker
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 5:40 am
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WTF?

Why wasn't I invited to this thread?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:02 am
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SkinWalker wrote:
WTF?

Why wasn't I invited to this thread?

You have cooties, duh.



Ophiolite wrote:
Do you understand that you are the source of that frustration?

The question in my mind remains, did you deliberately seek to induce that frustration, or do you really not know you are behaving like an asshole. Was that an ad hominem? I'm not sure. I was directing it against your behaviour, not against you. Your behaviour is bizarre, but is it deliberate?

You explained earlier in the other thread that you had deliberately set up a situation on another forum that led to you being banned. When iNow suggested such deceitful (my word, not his) behaviour was often called trolling you reacted strongly. iNow insisted he was not calling you a troll. Frankly, I think he may have been trying a little to hard to be diplomatic in order to keep the discussion going. I think he called you a troll and, if you did what you say you did, then absolutely you were trolling. If it walks like a duck, quacks and lays eggs, it's probably a duck.

And here you come, open a thread, and behave in a passive-aggressive manner, that in the last third or so of that thread becomes openly aggressive. You resist many reasonable attempts to move forward with the declared intent of the thread and offend some of the other participants. It looks suspisciously like trolling to me.

On the other hand, if you genuinely were trying to explore your theory of the scapegoat,etc, what have you actually achieved? You have learned that if you go onto a forum and poke people they will react. Their reactions will have a lot in common because they are receiving the same stimulus, not because they are victims, or practitioners of group think.

I've quoted you here because I too would like an answer to your question, and also because you've brought such precision and clarity through your words.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:13 am
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Futilitist wrote:
Are you all afraid of me? Why are you discussing a word that I clearly made up without even inviting me? How could this be productive? Do you think you can figure it out without me? I'll just kick back and listen. Let's see what you come up with.

Or maybe you could just ask me. :ugeek:


i, as admin for this site, hereby give you permission to roam all of the forum
but seriously, i thought there was a possibly different angle to the discussion of futilitism, and i didn't want to interrupt the flow of the original thread

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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:46 am
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Thank you to iNow for your kind words.

Marnix, my apologies for having misinterpreted your intent in starting the thread. Perhaps I was reading into it what my own motivation might have been had I started it.


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:20 pm
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Ophiolite wrote:
I think you seriously pissed Marnix off and he started this thread to poke fun at you. When you make unwarranted accusations against a decent person like Marnix then you may expect some bite-back. You got it in this thread. Personally, I think opening it was the wrong thing to do, or certainly the OP had inappropriate content, but I can understand Marnix's frustration. Do you understand that you are the source of that frustration?
I do understand that I am the source (inspiration) for marnixR's frustration. Do you all understand that I am not the cause of his actions? The decision to set up this side thread was his, not mine. I cannot control MarniR's thoughts or actions. Do you think I can?

MarnixR wrote:
which set me on a train of thought that appeared off-topic from the main discussion, that's why i started a thread on the topic of "what exactly IS futilitism ?"

because i haven't been able to find any reference to it on the internet (apart from sites where Futilitist is active), nor have i ever encountered the term elsewhere in life
This was apparently not MarnixR's true motivation. Why try to color it this way? Why not just say you were pissed at me and wanted to vent? That is what people here think (know) you are doing anyway. And they say so.

Ophiolite wrote:
So, if you want to clarify things why not let me know which, if any, of my two hypotheses for your motives are valid. If you don't want to reveal it just yet, since the experiment is still in progress, you could always pm me, although I don't know what the group would think about that.
I don't like behind the scenes PMs. They encourage, and help to promote Groupthink. I'm sure enough of my position not to require them, in any case.

Ophiolite wrote:
On the other hand, if you genuinely were trying to explore your theory of the scapegoat,etc, what have you actually achieved? You have learned that if you go onto a forum and poke people they will react. Their reactions will have a lot in common because they are receiving the same stimulus, not because they are victims, or practitioners of group think.
I came to this web site to invite you "science guys" to take a look at some experiments that I had conducted online. If you had accepted my invitation, you would have been able to look at the very stange and interesting behavior of others. That would have been much more comfortable to you than what this has become. I believe it is almost impossible for people to acknowledge scapegoating behavior in themselves. The choice to go down this road was yours, not mine.

By the way, this newest thread on Futilitism is very interesting to me. You see, setting up side threads was exactly the same reaction that happened in 2 of my other experiments! Both LATOC and Doomstead Diner exploded with side theads containing the word Futile, Futility, and Futilitist. For about a week, it was practically the only thing being talked about. You "science guys" have now fallen as far down the rabbit hole as a bunch of "crazy" apocalyptic doomers!!! Nice.

But just to bring some clarity to this discussion, Futilitism is not a real philosophy, science, or religion. I made up the concept so that I could make some difficult concepts easier for people to understand. The word was designed to encourage wordplay, thus the i's.

Rather than write a complete explanation of Futilitism for you, I will offer this, instead. What follows is my intro to Futilitism given to the freaks at LATOC to see how they will react. Warning: there is some foul languge on display here. Please don't look if you are likely to be offended.

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Thu Sep 06, 2012 8:55 pm by Futilitist

Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
*****HOT ITEM******

I was recently banned from commenting on the oildrum.com. I want everyone here to know that TOD is an energy DIS-information site. The whole thing started when I challenged John Michael Greer's Catabolic Collapse Theory and all hell broke loose. It ends with JMG himself publicly offering me the opportunity write a formal scientific critque of his so called theory.

I got banned for creating a controversy. So I started my own blog to act as a witness. You gotta check out:

http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/08/ ... tchen.html
and:
http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/09/ ... eal_1.html
and:
http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/09/memory-hole.html

I know you will get a kick out of this. Tell everyone.

----Futilitist


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Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:46 pm by OldHorseman

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:46 pm by OldHorseman

- Interesting indeed... Although I'm not up on the various forum personalities in play these days.

- I'd say in general that the reduction of interest in the petro-collapse is due to not to the fact that we've been talking about it so long and nothing has happened, but to the fact that we're actually well into it now. Collapse is much more fun when it's a fanciful theory for some distant point in the future than when it's an everyday fact of life.

I may be gettin' old, But I've been fightin' DIRTIER LONGER!


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Picasso Moon

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Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:21 pm by Picasso Moon

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Thu Sep 06, 2012 11:21 pm by Picasso Moon

Err,..... shouldn't your first post NOT be an ad?

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:09 am by allissun

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:09 am by allissun

Picasso Moon,

It is not necessarily that a first post should not be an ad.

It depends on some factors.

I have not yet read the links to the ads , or links, and i am certain that if OH and I have not yet done so, it will be done

This forum welcomes debate.

Slow down.... think and live from your heart, that is all that is real

Initially the most exposed would be those with little cash at hand, low home inventories, mobility restrictions and weak family and community ties. Korowicz (quote by Dmitry Orlov)


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Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:14 am by Picasso Moon

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Fri Sep 07, 2012 1:14 am by Picasso Moon

OK, i was under that impression, thanks for correcting me, for future reference.

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:53 am by Futilitist

introductions: Futilitist

Hey guys,

Sorry to be so abrupt before. Not the best social skills and I was in a bit of a hurry. But that's no excuse. Let me try again. Hi. My real name is Loren Soman and I post under the name Futilitist. I am a drummer and an artist. I just turned 50 and I've known that social collapse was coming since I was 10. I lived in the woods for a year and studied paleolithic living skills. I can make a bow drill fire. I love free speech. This seems like a pretty cool site. I already feel welcome here.

Doomstead Diner is having a serious debate on the speed of collapse called "Sudden Stop or Long Emergency" that has grown out of my silly dust up with Greer. Here is a link:

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/ind ... pic=842.30

I think you will enjoy. Please come join in.

----Futilitist


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:27 am by Picasso Moon

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:27 am by Picasso Moon

OK, cool, sorry to be so abrupt with my response as well. Welcome to the forum.

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:29 am by Futilitist

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:29 am by Futilitist

Thanks Picasso Moon.


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:51 am by Picasso Moon

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:51 am by Picasso Moon

Interesting discussion at the Diner. We've been having a discussion about Kortowicz and Orlov's comments about his analysis at

http://www.theoilage.com/orlov-the-joy- ... t7561.html

including Orlov responding to John Michael Greer at Energy Bulletin, a pretty devastating response i think.

I like the Titanic model, the analogy to all the passengers who after initially panicking but then seeing the ship not sink right away become more and more convinced that the ship won't suddenly sink, because it hasn't done so yet.

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:46 am by Templar

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:46 am by Templar

Picasso Moon wrote:I like the Titanic model, the analogy to all the passengers who after initially panicking but then seeing the ship not sink right away become more and more convinced that the ship won't suddenly sink, because it hasn't done so yet.

That is exactly why I quoted those 1929 quotes, everyone was convinced that everything was going to be okay, the leaders, the learned institutions, the exact people who we have today saying the exact same malarkey.

We can argue all these facts to the end of time, but in reality it is just that. Idle chitchat.

When a event happens, it will be unexpected. If it is expected it will happen in an unexpected way.

We are so busy arguing about how the collapse will happen that even if we are right about our own point of view, you can say "Yes! SEE! I was right!" but it wont mean anything. We keep trying to convince each other and ourselves that collapse will happen, it is here boys and girls, but we have been involved in this movement so long that we can't see the forest through the trees.

There will be a catalyzing event soon, that will wake up everyone including the members of our community, it will leave many stunned and scared. We have gone to far down this very dark road and the complex system is beyond repair. We may believe it has resilience, and it does, but you cant create food it has to be grown and no amount of statistic manipulation or fudging the numbers will feed the world's masses. Once people start going hungry even for a week, and given our very intricate delivery system is not too hard to interrupt we will see an about turn on our so called "Civilization".

This is the exact reason, I have not been posting as much. I have been busy doing. I believe the time for talk is over, now is the time we should be putting into action everything we know that needs to be done. If you don't have your safety net in place, get it and quickly. The world is very complex and very fragile and it wont take much of anything to see the whole thing implode in on itself.

Just look around people, we don't need studies, we don't need long papers, we don't need arguments. You just need common sense to see what we have has been unsustainable for many years.

To give an example of the difference between warning and change, I use a local example, a place called Frank.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Slide

The Frank Slide was a rockslide that buried part of the mining town of Frank, Northwest Territories, Canada, on the morning of April 29, 1903. It occurred at 4:10 AM, when over 82 million tonnes (90 million tons) of limestone rock slid down Turtle Mountain within 100 seconds, obliterating the eastern edge of Frank, the Canadian Pacific Railway line and the coal mine. It was one of the largest landslides in Canadian history and remains the deadliest, as between 70 and 90 of the town's residents were killed, most of whom remain buried. Multiple factors led to the slide. Turtle Mountain's unstable formation left it in a constant state of instability, leading area native tribes to call it "the mountain that moves". Coal mining operations may have weakened the mountain's internal structure, as did a wet winter and cold snap on the night of the slide.

I bet when the residents went to sleep that night, they never thought the mountain would come down on them that evening, you know.. It had never happened before! It was a mountain, mountains are stable, they have deep support structures! Sure it had cracks, sure it had people warning of issues, but those people are just crazy.

A mountain can never fall....

Definition of Irony: Posting on a forum saying you don't need community.


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:57 pm by Futilitist

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:57 pm by Futilitist

Templar,

Your example of the Frank Slide is fantastic, I'd never heard of it before. I know you think the discussion is a waste of time, but would you mind posting it in the Doomstead Diner thread? I really love this example. And it really helps my argument a lot if more people contribute. Part of my idea is to use social pressure to convince people of the truth. If I make the argument all alone, people will instinctively react in a negative way. People want to be popular and agreeing with an unpopular idea is dangerous. But if they see that others might agree, they begin to think they might be missing out on the fun. They also begin to question whether they might look silly to other serious people who 'get it'. They are forced to choose which social club to belong to.

If you don't choose to post this, I hope you don't mind if I do.

---Futilitist


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:58 pm by Templar

Re: Cat Fight at theoildrum!!!!
Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:58 pm by Templar

Feel free to post it, just send a link back here so people find our little island in the sea of doom, I only post here as a personal rule of thumb.

I don't mean to condescending when I say arguing is a waste of time, I just think that the energy people invest into getting into these debates could and should be allocated elsewhere which will help you in the long run more than winning an internet argument. I see on threads all over the place some people absorb themselves in the internet phenomena of doom chasing, and in time neglect that we are not talking about a movie, or a book. We talk about our very lives and existence, and sometimes I don't believe it really sinks in just what is on the line.

I gave up long ago trying to convince people, I will explain my position with the caveat, "I'm not here to argue the point, I am just here to warn you, take it or leave it" Humans are fickle beings and often when they lock onto a concept or ideology they will fight for that ideology to the bitter end, regardless how wrong they may be, it's similar to religious zealots, some are willing to die for what they believe in before they will be convinced of a different viewpoint.

To put the argument into perspective, I believe in a fast crash and have prepared my life as such. If it turns into a slow crash, I am out nothing as everything can be used/eaten. Though to say "This wont be a problem for 300 years" doesn't leave you much wiggle room if it happens overnight. To quote my previous post "A Mountain can never fall."

Definition of Irony: Posting on a forum saying you don't need community.


I followed the link that Picasso Moon put up and after reading a bit, I posted this:

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Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:31 pm by Futilitist

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:31 pm by Futilitist

allisson,

Your aim is true.

I think it is time for people to slow down a little bit and try to get their heads around what we all really face in the very near future. The picture is becoming clearer and most people's reactions and responses so far may be completely unjustifiable in that they simply don't square with reality. I believe most folks have a false sense of security, even those who are frantically prepping their doomsteads.

I'd like to suggest something that maybe you guys haven't considered or at least I don't see it discussed very often (I'm new here so maybe I need to look around more, but...):

You are all going to die.

Not exactly 'all' but it might as well be.

And don't get me wrong, I think the doomsteaders are the only ones with any chance. Just not a very good one, in terms of odds.

You are all going to die.

It is sobering to stop and absorb the full meaning of this. But if you do, you may discover something. Futility is not necessarily a bad thing. If you were to get a terminal diagnosis from a doctor, you may cycle around through stages of grief for a while, but you will still end up at same place. Having to face the truth.

I am going to die

(I am borrowing the terminal patient analogy here from the Charlatan, John Michael Greer. Greer, like most modern day physicians, does not even consider the thoughts and emotions of the patient he means to treat. For some background on my WAR with JMG for those who have not seen it, check out:

http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/08/ ... tchen.html
http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/09/ ... eal_1.html
http://futilitist.blogspot.com/2012/09/memory-hole.html)

But back to the topic at hand:

We are all going to die

What good does it do to realize that? The answer is really obvious. Slow down. Chillax. Fighting what is coming is exhausting, and if it turns out in the end to be unsuccessful, then you have wasted the most valuable time any of us have ever been given.

From the wikipedia on apocalypse:

An apocalypse (Ancient Greek: ἀποκάλυψις apocálypsis, from ἀπό and καλύπτω meaning 'un-covering') is a revelation of something hidden. In religious contexts it is usually a revelation of hidden meaning - hidden from mankind in an era dominated by falsehood and misconception.

I am an atheist. But this is a wonderful concept and so true. Think about it. All the lies and hypocrisy you've had to swallow your entire life are going to fall before your eyes. For one brief shining moment the truth will be revealed to all. All will be equal and everyone will be free.

The world is changing fast. I'm going to sit back and actively enjoy the show. We are just now getting to the good part.

I call myself Futilitist because I believe there is something to be gained by embracing the futility of a losing situation rather than fighting it. I invented a personal philosophy called Futilitism. Basically the search for Utility in Futility = Futilitism.

-----Futilitist

PS---check out the discussion on slow vs. fast collapse at Doomstead Diner:

http://www.doomsteaddiner.org/forum/ind ... opic=842.0

Please join in.


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:45 pm by allissun

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:45 pm by allissun

^^ i love elvis...

and, Death is my guide... i wrote about that early on soon after joining TOA

i did a fast-track doom-peak oil apprenticeship

here's the thread. i might seem a little whacko sometimes... but i'm quite ok with it. it's more fun than being dead (or is it? ):

pop-peak-oil-poetry-t1719.html

Slow down.... think and live from your heart, that is all that is real

Initially the most exposed would be those with little cash at hand, low home inventories, mobility restrictions and weak family and community ties. Korowicz (quote by Dmitry Orlov)


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:47 pm by allissun

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:47 pm by allissun

Futilitist wrote:...

I call myself Futilitist because I believe there is something to be gained by embracing the futility of a losing situation rather than fighting it. I invented a personal philosophy called Futilitism. Basically the search for Utility in Futility = Futilitism.

i love plays on words, especially when they create new concepts, if that is possible.

Slow down.... think and live from your heart, that is all that is real

Initially the most exposed would be those with little cash at hand, low home inventories, mobility restrictions and weak family and community ties. Korowicz (quote by Dmitry Orlov)


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:24 pm by Futilitist

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:24 pm by Futilitist

allissun,

You wrote: "i love plays on words, especially when they create new concepts, if that is possible."

Thank you, I'm glad you appreciate it. I also love word play (or any play, for that matter) and I do think it is possible to create new concepts, either from plays on words or entirely from whole cloth. Creativity is the point.

OK, I just checked out your link and I think you are brilliant. We should co-author a book together that we will never have the time to finish, and no one will live to ever read!

----Futilitist


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:34 pm by allissun

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:34 pm by allissun

i LOVE the idea... sounds like an excellent plan... gotta run... there's a fight over the use of the laptop occurring at my house

Slow down.... think and live from your heart, that is all that is real

Initially the most exposed would be those with little cash at hand, low home inventories, mobility restrictions and weak family and community ties. Korowicz (quote by Dmitry Orlov)


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:57 pm by Picasso Moon

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 5:57 pm by Picasso Moon

Speaking for myself, i have no intention of making it easy for TPTB to kill me. I will continue to RESIST. You can talk about the futility of it all till you're blue in the face, it's your own choice, i cannot look myself in the mirror if i don't RESIST, if i don't try to stay a caring, involved human being. I can think of some who would love for everyone to conclude it's all futile and just give up, so they can romp. I have no intention of helping them. I have no kids, but know quite a few of them, kids of friends, and i intend to do what i can so that they do have a future.

Sorry, but telling everyone that they're gonna die is a non-sequitur, it's so fucking obvious. Being alive inherently involves death in the future. Did you just discover that?

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)




Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:47 pm by Futilitist

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Picasso Moon,

You wrote: "Speaking for myself, i have no intention of making it easy for TPTB to kill me. I will continue to RESIST. You can talk about the futility of it all till you're blue in the face, it's your own choice, i cannot look myself in the mirror if i don't RESIST, if i don't try to stay a caring, involved human being. I can think of some who would love for everyone to conclude it's all futile and just give up, so they can romp. I have no intention of helping them. I have no kids, but know quite a few of them, kids of friends, and i intend to do what i can so that they do have a future."

Speaking for more than just myself, no one has any intention at all in the sense you speak (check out John Grey's "Straw Dogs"). In reality, our rational brain just seeks to reasure itself. Everyone will resist dying until they are until they are 'blue in the face'. The kind of resistance you speak of is instinctive and in all of us. It is in me too. And I have a young daughter. And I am a loving, caring and invoved human being. And I'm not giving up so I can 'romp'. Your suggestion seems to be that we should disregard what I am saying because I am some sort of uncaring human monster. The charge is invalid, therfore so is the suggestion.

And: "Sorry, but telling everyone that they're gonna die is a non-sequitur, it's so fucking obvious. Being alive inherently involves death in the future. Did you just discover that?"

Of course not. Why do you ask?


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:52 pm by Futilitist

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:52 pm by Futilitist

Picasso Moon,

Check out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_N._Gray

"In Straw Dogs, he argues that the idea that humans are self-determining agents does not pass the acid test of experience. Those Darwinist thinkers who believe humans can take charge of their own destiny to prevent environmental degradation are, in this view, not naturalists, but apostles of humanism."

And:

"Gray’s work has been praised by, amongst others, the novelists J. G. Ballard, Will Self and John Banville, the theologian Don Cupitt, the journalist Bryan Appleyard, the political scientist David Runciman, the investor and philanthropist George Soros and the environmental scientist James Lovelock.[5][11][12][13][14][15]

His 1998 book False Dawn was praised by George Soros as 'a powerful analysis of the deepening instability of global capitalism' which 'should be read by all who are concerned about the future of the global economy'.[14] John Banville praised both Black Mass and Gray's Anatomy, saying that 'Gray's assault on Enlightenment ideas of progress is timelier than ever'.[16]

His 2002 book Straw Dogs: Thoughts on Humans and Other Animals has received particular praise. J. G. Ballard wrote that the book 'challenges most of our assumptions about what it means to be human, and convincingly shows that most of them are delusions’ and described it ‘a powerful and brilliant book’, ‘an essential guide to the new millennium’ and ‘the most exhilarating book I have read since Richard Dawkins's The Selfish Gene.’[17] Self called the book ‘a contemporary work of philosophy devoid of jargon, wholly accessible, and profoundly relevant to the rapidly evolving world we live in’ and wrote ‘I read it once, I read it twice and took notes. I arranged to meet its author so I could publicise the book – I thought it that good.’[11][17]

In 2002, Straw Dogs was named a book of the year by J. G. Ballard in The Daily Telegraph; by George Walden in The Sunday Telegraph; by Will Self, Joan Bakewell, Jason Cowley and David Marquand in the New Statesman; by Andrew Marr in The Observer; by Jim Crace in The Times; by Hugh Lawson Tancred in The Spectator; by Richard Holloway in the Glasgow Herald; and by Sue Cook in The Sunday Express.

Nassim Nicholas Taleb has written that he considers John N. Gray the modern thinker for whom he has the most respect, calling him "prophetic"."

And this editorial review from Publishers Weekly:

"Humans think they are free, conscious beings, when in truth they are deluded animals, writes London University economics professor Gray (Black Mass) in a series of brief and intriguing mini-essays. His themes include the similarities between hypnotism and financial markets and uncomfortable truths behind drug use and its prohibition. In a chapter called Deception, Gray traces Humanism from Plato through Postmodernism. He critiques both science and religion: Science can advance human knowledge, it cannot make humanity cherish truth. Like the Christians of former times, scientists are caught up in the web of power; they struggle for survival and success; their view of the world is a patchwork of conventional beliefs. At a certain point, it can be difficult to see where Gray's allegiances lie. He tears down institutions, especially consciousness, self, free will and morality, and questions our ability to solve the problems of overpopulation and overconsumption: Only a breed of ex-humans can thrive in the world that unchecked human expansion has created. So what's left? Gray recommends a devaluation of progress, mastery, and immortality, and a return to contemplation and acceptance: Other animals do not need a purpose in life. Can we not think of the aim of life as being simply to see? This comforting question punctuates an otherwise profoundly disturbing meditation on humankind's real place in the world." (Oct.)

Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved.

I like this little quote:

"Can we not think of the aim of life as being simply to see?"

----Futilitist


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:27 pm by Picasso Moon

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 8:27 pm by Picasso Moon

You are presenting praise by fucking GEORGE SOROS as if that's a good thing? Seriously?

And fuck JG Ballard as well while at it.

In no way did i say that you want us to give up so YOU can romp.

I can think of some who would love for everyone to conclude it's all futile and just give up, so they can romp.

I am talking about the likes of Soros, who would love for us to give up all resistance.

And while we're assigning fucks, fuck Straw Dogs as well, part of the propaganda to convince us that it's all useless, that we're doomed anyway. Yes, i actually believe that humans can stop acting in such ways that they destroy the environment, since the vast majority of human history did not involve such practice, the vast majority of human societies did not involve such practice. This notion that we're HELPLESS, prisoners of our supposedly destructive DNA, is pure poison.

PS: Dawkins was thoroughly debunked by Lynn Margulis, who has demonstrated well that cooperation is far more important in evolutionary biology than competition. It perfectly fits that people who like Straw Dogs like Dawkins.

http://www.science20.com/gadfly/lynn_ma ... _selection

What's your point, aside from trying to convince others to stop resisting? Who gains from that?!!!

Vow to vanquish the venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing

the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition! (V For Vendetta)

Living and intention need a re-view. How and what and why before where and when. - Allissun


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Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm by Futilitist

Re: Orlov: the joy of national default
Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:32 pm by Futilitist

Picasso Moon,

I seem to have struck a few nerves here. Let's take a look at what you said:

You: "You are presenting praise by fucking GEORGE SOROS as if that's a good thing? Seriously?
And fuck JG Ballard as well while at it."

I presented the whole editorial review so as not seem to cherry pick. So are you saying that if George Soros likes something it must be bad? Soros is wrong about some things, therefore he must be wrong about all things? I don't know very much about Soros, really, or care much what he thinks. Same goes for JG Ballard. You may be right about them being bad dudes and all but it doesn't really pertain to what I was talking about.

You: "In no way did i say that you want us to give up so YOU can romp."

Accepted

You: "I am talking about the likes of Soros, who would love for us to give up all resistance."

Now I really must check up on this Soros fellow. He does not sound very nice at all.

You: "And while we're assigning fucks, fuck Straw Dogs as well, part of the propaganda to convince us that it's all useless, that we're doomed anyway. Yes, i actually believe that humans can stop acting in such ways that they destroy the environment, since the vast majority of human history did not involve such practice, the vast majority of human societies did not involve such practice. This notion that we're HELPLESS, prisoners of our supposedly destructive DNA, is pure poison."

The conclusions that John Grey draws in Straw Dogs are well supported by the most up to date neuroscience, as well as psychology, social theory, and game theory. And also by your much reviled neo-Darwinism and basic biology. Not to mention most modern philosphy. And also logic. This is just the way that knowledge is leading us. The truth is not always a pretty thing. You don't prefer where the science leads, so you pick something more comforting.

You: "PS: Dawkins was thoroughly debunked by Lynn Margulis, who has demonstrated well that cooperation is far more important in evolutionary biology than competition. It perfectly fits that people who like Straw Dogs like Dawkins."

I read the article and it seems like you and the author are kinda nit picking. I don't think that neo-Darwinism is in any real trouble over this. If Margolis is right, her idea will simply be folded into a slightly revised neo-Darwinism. Just not earth shaking stuff.

You: "What's your point, aside from trying to convince others to stop resisting? Who gains from that?!!!"

Please reread my original post. In it, I clearly outline some of the wonderful benefits of what I call Futilitism. You should try it.

I think that makes a complete circle.

-----Futilitist


---Futilitist :ugeek:


Last edited by Futilitist on Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:24 pm
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iNow wrote:
SkinWalker wrote:
WTF?

Why wasn't I invited to this thread?

You have cooties, duh.



Ophiolite wrote:
Do you understand that you are the source of that frustration?

The question in my mind remains, did you deliberately seek to induce that frustration, or do you really not know you are behaving like an asshole. Was that an ad hominem? I'm not sure. I was directing it against your behaviour, not against you. Your behaviour is bizarre, but is it deliberate?

You explained earlier in the other thread that you had deliberately set up a situation on another forum that led to you being banned. When iNow suggested such deceitful (my word, not his) behaviour was often called trolling you reacted strongly. iNow insisted he was not calling you a troll. Frankly, I think he may have been trying a little to hard to be diplomatic in order to keep the discussion going. I think he called you a troll and, if you did what you say you did, then absolutely you were trolling. If it walks like a duck, quacks and lays eggs, it's probably a duck.

And here you come, open a thread, and behave in a passive-aggressive manner, that in the last third or so of that thread becomes openly aggressive. You resist many reasonable attempts to move forward with the declared intent of the thread and offend some of the other participants. It looks suspisciously like trolling to me.

On the other hand, if you genuinely were trying to explore your theory of the scapegoat,etc, what have you actually achieved? You have learned that if you go onto a forum and poke people they will react. Their reactions will have a lot in common because they are receiving the same stimulus, not because they are victims, or practitioners of group think.

I've quoted you here because I too would like an answer to your question, and also because you've brought such precision and clarity through your words.


iNow,

You are admitting your frustration with me here. You deny that frustation in the other thread. Is it possible that your frustration is what led you to bully me so terribly in the other thread?

---Futitlitist :ugeek:


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:04 pm
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iNow to SkinWalker wrote:

"You have cooties, duh."

Very mature. If someone has "cooties" then their membership in the group might be in jepardy. And I don't mean to imply that SkinWalker is not a trusted in-group member. He probably is. That is why you are sharing this inside joke with him. This is suposed to be a science forum. Do you believe that "cooties" are a real thing? Is there some scientific or physical basis for "cooties" that you wish to justify? iNow, why bring childish things like this into a serious discusion? Please grow up.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:39 pm
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Futilitist wrote:
By the way, this newest thread on Futilitism is very interesting to me. You see, setting up side threads was exactly the same reaction that happened in 2 of my other experiments! Both LATOC and Doomstead Diner exploded with side theads containing the word Futile, Futility, and Futilitist. For about a week, it was practically the only thing being talked about. You "science guys" have now fallen as far down the rabbit hole as a bunch of "crazy" apocalyptic doomers!!! Nice.


we're all people - there are strings that can pulled so that they react the same way, whether of a scientific bent or not
mind you, i still would like the original thread to continue, especially when it comes to some clarity about groupthink

Futilitist wrote:
But just to bring some clarity to this discussion, Futilitism is not a real philosophy, science, or religion. I made up the concept so that I could make some difficult concepts easier for people to understand. The word was designed to encourage wordplay, thus the i's.

Rather than write a complete explanation of Futilitism for you, I will offer this, instead. What follows is my intro to Futilitism given to the freaks at LATOC to see how they will react.


i've read through the whole communication and must admit that it's got me more confused rather than enlightened - how about an explanation in 1 or 2 paragraphs that explains the core items ?

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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:07 pm
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marnixR wrote:
we're all people - there are strings that can pulled so that they react the same way
Really? If these strings exist, then they are phenomena to be investigated scientifically, rather than just "crackpot" ideas to be denied and ignored.

Some scientific questions raised by your insight:
What are these strings?
Do all people have them?
What are the specific triggers?
How do they work?
What is the role of language in these behaviors?
How did these behaviors evolve?
What purpose do they serve?
Is it really possible for any groups to be impartial about anything?
What other bizarre secrets might be revealed by my technique?

marnixR wrote:
i've read through the whole communication and must admit that it's got me more confused rather than enlightened - how about an explanation in 1 or 2 paragraphs that explains the core items ?
Futilitism is a made up word. I made it up. It can mean anything I want it to.

The core concepts I've been trying to talk about come mostly from John Grey's "Straw Dogs" and from Rene Girard's concepts of mimetic desire, mimetic rivalry, and the scapegoat mechanism. There is also general support for the basic ideas in neuroscience, psychology, and social theory research. Mimetics has become a fruitful philosophic and scientific research area, in it's own right.

You guys seem to be hearing this stuff for the first time.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:51 pm
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marnixR wrote:
i've read through the whole communication and must admit that it's got me more confused rather than enlightened - how about an explanation in 1 or 2 paragraphs that explains the core items ?

Futilitist wrote:
The core concepts I've been trying to talk about come mostly from John Grey's "Straw Dogs" and from Rene Girard's concepts of mimetic desire, mimetic rivalry, and the scapegoat mechanism. There is also general support for the basic ideas in neuroscience, psychology, and social theory research. Mimetics has become a fruitful philosophic and scientific research area, in it's own right.

That was not an explanation. Would you like to take another swing?

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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 12:45 am
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iNow wrote:
I've quoted you [Ophiolite] here because I too would like [Futilitist to provide] an answer to your question, and also because you've brought such precision and clarity through your words.
Futilitist wrote:
iNow,

You are admitting your frustration with me here.

How?

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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 1:24 am
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Futilitist wrote:
iNow to SkinWalker wrote:

"You have cooties, duh."

Very mature. If someone has "cooties" then their membership in the group might be in jepardy. And I don't mean to imply that SkinWalker is not a trusted in-group member. He probably is. That is why you are sharing this inside joke with him. This is suposed to be a science forum. Do you believe that "cooties" are a real thing? Is there some scientific or physical basis for "cooties" that you wish to justify? iNow, why bring childish things like this into a serious discusion? Please grow up.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


Cooties are body lice. They're very real and have a long, scientific body of work behind their propagation and parasitic relationship with humanity. Interestingly enough, they only exist on humans. Other animals have their own species of lice, but there is a unique and specific species that afflicts only humans. It's quite a shame that, as a group, we can't seem to think of a way in which to effectively rid ourselves of them. Most people agree that they're a bad idea -that they're unpleasant to have colonizing the various warm, wet places of our bodies. As such, we marginalize those who refuse to adhere to group norms of hygiene and louse control. This might be an example of group think in action, one that could potentially rid the human populace of cooties were it not for those uncouth, uncaring anarchists of good hygiene.


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:53 am
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SkinWalker wrote:
Futilitist wrote:
iNow to SkinWalker wrote:

"You have cooties, duh."

Very mature. If someone has "cooties" then their membership in the group might be in jepardy. And I don't mean to imply that SkinWalker is not a trusted in-group member. He probably is. That is why you are sharing this inside joke with him. This is suposed to be a science forum. Do you believe that "cooties" are a real thing? Is there some scientific or physical basis for "cooties" that you wish to justify? iNow, why bring childish things like this into a serious discusion? Please grow up.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


Cooties are body lice. They're very real and have a long, scientific body of work behind their propagation and parasitic relationship with humanity. Interestingly enough, they only exist on humans. Other animals have their own species of lice, but there is a unique and specific species that afflicts only humans. It's quite a shame that, as a group, we can't seem to think of a way in which to effectively rid ourselves of them. Most people agree that they're a bad idea -that they're unpleasant to have colonizing the various warm, wet places of our bodies. As such, we marginalize those who refuse to adhere to group norms of hygiene and louse control. This might be an example of group think in action, one that could potentially rid the human populace of cooties were it not for those uncouth, uncaring anarchists of good hygiene.


Sorry man. I just tried to post a complete reply to your post and the system malfuctioned, and I lost the post. I don't have time to rewrite it now. If I don't get swamped, I want to get back to this.

Just a quick question for you for now:

Speaking of "uncaring anarchists of good hygiene", in the philosophic sense at least, what do you think of nihilism? Please answer this. Thanks.

Hey, I just now realized that nihilism has as many i's as Futilitism and Futilitist! Is nihilism ego centric?

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:08 am
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Futilitist wrote:
Speaking of "uncaring anarchists of good hygiene", in the philosophic sense at least, what do you think of nihilism?

It's pointless.

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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:19 am
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iNow,

Please elaborate.

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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 8:35 am
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Futilitist wrote:
what do you think of nihilism? Please answer this. Thanks.


I think nihilism is misunderstood, probably born from the various types of nihilism. But the doctrine that existence lacks any inherent meaning or purpose seems reasonable to me.

You will forgive me for not reading all the numerous posts on this thread and I ask for clarification for what futilisism is.


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Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:38 pm
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Prometheus,

Welcome to the conversation of endless loops.

Futilitism is a philosophy that I made up as a tool to use in my social theory experiements. It helps make a difficult concept more fun and approachable. It posits a meaning to be found deep in the meaninglessness of nihilism, among other things. I posted an example of how I use this tool somewhere above.

Here is the wordplay that Futilitism is based on:

The search for utility in futility = Futilitism

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 6:26 pm
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Futilitist wrote:
The search for utility in futility = Futilitism


aha ! i see that my initial question has finally been answered - thank you for that
so on to my next question : if something is futile how do you determine whether it harbours any utility ?

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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 10:40 pm
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marnixR wrote:
Futilitist wrote:
The search for utility in futility = Futilitism


aha ! i see that my initial question has finally been answered - thank you for that
so on to my next question : if something is futile how do you determine whether it harbours any utility ?

First off, I already answered your initial question in my post, above, in which I share my intro to Futilitism from my second experiment. There is much detail there. Please read it. The question you now ask is covered in detail.

But I'll briefly answer you here.

When you accept the futility of your situation, you face your actual reality. If you look long and hard enough, you may find that some utility can be derived from this practice. Thus, Futilitism provides good risk management and strategic planning benefits.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Prometheus
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:57 pm
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Futilitist wrote:
When you accept the futility of your situation, you face your actual reality. If you look long and hard enough, you may find that some utility can be derived from this practice.


This sounds a lot like Albert Camus' absurdism. Deliberate or coincidence?


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SkinWalker
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:56 am
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Futilitist wrote:
Speaking of "uncaring anarchists of good hygiene", in the philosophic sense at least, what do you think of nihilism? Please answer this.


I don't think of nihilism. Sorry.


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:58 am
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Prometheus wrote:
Futilitist wrote:
When you accept the futility of your situation, you face your actual reality. If you look long and hard enough, you may find that some utility can be derived from this practice.


This sounds a lot like Albert Camus' absurdism. Deliberate or coincidence?
Great question! Are you really from around these parts? What was it that Camus said about confiding with others? Think of that, in reverse, to see how you appear to me now, upon first impressions, with respect to this group. You can feel good about your position so far.

I believe that Camus may have secretly been a Futilitist.

Quote:
There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.
Camus is in wide agreement here with some other famous Futilitists, such as Girordano Bruno and Socretes. As well as other dominant paradigm subverters such as the mythical Jesus, and the actual Gandi and Martin Luther King.


Quote:
I shall tell you a great secret, my friend. Do not wait for the last judgment, it takes place every day.
Camus on the scapegoat mechanism.


Quote:
In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer.
Camus on a basic Futilitism concept.


Quote:
You cannot acquire experience by making experiments. You cannot create experience. You must undergo it.
Camus on experince, and being in an experiment. I think he would get a kick out of what has happened here.


Quote:
All great deeds and all great thoughts have a ridiculous beginning.
Camus on the birth of the brand new philosophy, science, and religion that I call Futilitism.


---Futilitist :ugeek:


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:08 pm
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MOD NOTE: Some posts from another thread were duplicated here. Those posts have been merged with the other thread, and can be found at the following link: topic773-160.html

Please Note: Any comments pertaining to this removal of duplicate posts should be directed to me via PM. Posts to this or the other thread regarding the move will be deleted.

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Prometheus
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:33 am
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In what way is futilism a science? And how is it different from absurdism?


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KALSTER
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:45 am
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I don't see any utility in the futile endeavour of giving any serious consideration to Futilitist's posts.

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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:40 am
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Futilitist, the following is a classic demonstration of your comprehension difficulties.
utilitist wrote:
Speaking of "uncaring anarchists of good hygiene", in the philosophic sense at least, what do you think of nihilism?


iNow then replied with the rather obvious, but nevertheless amusing:
iNow wrote:
It's pointless.


This clearly went right over your head, for you asked:
Futlitist wrote:
Please elaborate.



If you cannot properly interpret the meaning of a post that describes nihilism as pointless then I am not surprised that you think you have been bullied by iNow. It's really quite sad.


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:10 am
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Ophiolite wrote:
Futilitist, the following is a classic demonstration of your comprehension difficulties.
utilitist wrote:
Speaking of "uncaring anarchists of good hygiene", in the philosophic sense at least, what do you think of nihilism?


iNow then replied with the rather obvious, but nevertheless amusing:
iNow wrote:
It's pointless.


This clearly went right over your head, for you asked:
Futlitist wrote:
Please elaborate.



If you cannot properly interpret the meaning of a post that describes nihilism as pointless then I am not surprised that you think you have been bullied by iNow. It's really quite sad.


This is very rude of you. You just assume, for no apparent reason, that I didn't get iNow's joke. What makes you think that? Just because I was asking for more detail in no way indicates that I do not understand him. If I did not ask for more detail than that, then it was pointless to ask him the question in the first place, since he didn't really answer it. My question does not indicate in any way that iNow's remark "clearly went right over (my) head" at all. My brushing aside of the joke was because it was not funny, and it left yet another question unanswered.

You are saying quite directly that I have some sort of learning or comprehension disorder. Which one? Prove it. If you cannot, then this is an ad hominem attack. Please stop this pointless, rude, childish, and very unscientific behavior. Thank you, sir.

I will not address any more of your comments unless I deem them to be of a serious nature (or a very good joke, which I've yet to hear from any of you "science guys"). Answering your posts is a waste of my time.

---Futilitist :ugeek: *

*note: This version of my avitar's signature is an example of a good and sophisticated joke, combining the "type size" joke with the "so many i's" joke to make this new hybrid version that manages to work at multiple levels. It is even an example of good grahic design. This demonstrates intelligence, artistry, and creativity, as well as humor. Your turn. :D


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:21 am
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KALSTER wrote:
I don't see any utility in the futile endeavour of giving any serious consideration to Futilitist's posts.


If Futilitism was easy, everyone would alreay be a Futilitist. Look closer.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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KALSTER
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:38 am
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Futilitist wrote:
KALSTER wrote:
I don't see any utility in the futile endeavour of giving any serious consideration to Futilitist's posts.


If Futilitism was easy, everyone would alreay be a Futilitist. Look closer.

---Futilitist :ugeek:
I have already looked close enough, thanks. Looks more like a warped ego trip than anything else.

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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:00 am
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KALSTER,

This quote is at the bottom of your post.
KALSTER wrote:
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--- Aristotle


Aristotle was a wise man. As long as you are going to quote him, you may as well take his advice.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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KALSTER
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:28 am
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He sure was. "Able" and "willing" are two different things though.

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"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:57 am
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That is true. It is not compulsory. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Provided they are strong enough to have one of their own.

---futilitist :ugeek:


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:55 pm
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Futilitist wrote:
You are saying quite directly that I have some sort of learning or comprehension disorder.

I have to concur that your posts strongly suggest neurological or substance-abuse problems, but that's neither here nor there.

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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:23 am
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SkinWalker,

Please review this thread. I want your opinion of iNow's post as well as Ophiolite's posts. These constitute abusive behavior. I want to have a serious discussion. Please make them stop this childish behavior.

Thank you.

---Futilitist :ugeek:

I will also contact you via PM.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:54 am
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Mod Note: Some recent posts have been moved to the Trash.
topic793.html

Futilitist - Please note that continuing to repeat the same posts after they have already been repeatedly moved to the trash could result in a suspension of your posting privileges.

For clarity, a decision by us on the staff to remove something you've posted from the central discussion is $ \displaystyle \ne$ an invitation to continue posting the same thing over and over again after it has been removed.

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Prometheus
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:48 am
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Futilitist wrote:
I want to have a serious discussion. Please make them stop this childish behavior.


I have tried to engage you in serious discussion, and we may continue to do so. However, asking for a serious discussion after your spam attack outburst is a little hypocritical. If people are offending you either grow thicker skin or do not engage with those people. I recommend the former.


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:37 pm
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Thanks Prometheus. I very much appreciate your thoughtful and respectful approach to discussion on this forum. Your posts provide a much welcome relief from the usual drivel so prominently on display here. Hopefully we can get back to our serious discussion, as soon as I am able to post freely and without fear of capricious censorship.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:11 pm
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Please take a close look at the sequence of "smilies" laid out below. It is quite seriously meant to illustrate the concept of mirroring in mimetic rivalry. This took some time to assemble. It is not a joke or provocation of any kind. It is meant to relect my point of view. I just thought a modality switch from words to pictures might help. :idea: :)

:D :D
:) :)
:) :!:
:?: :twisted:
:o :roll:
:cry: :mrgreen:
:x :lol:
:evil: :lol:
:idea: :lol:
:!: :o
:geek: :oops:
:ugeek: :x
:D :twisted:
:D :arrow:
:o :lol:
:shock: :lol:
:cry: :mrgreen:

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 11:58 am
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People react as well as act. I think we can all agree on that. So, nothing to see here. Move along please.


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Futilitist
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:10 am
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Ophiolite wrote:
People react as well as act. I think we can all agree on that. So, nothing to see here. Move along please.


Can you please clarify the above statement? I'm having trouble with my reading comprehension on this one. Thanks.

---Futilitist :ugeek:


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Ophiolite
Post  Post subject: Re: what exactly IS futilitism ?  |  Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:22 am
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Your sequence of smilies shows the path of a typical exchange between two people. In this exchange one person says something that impacts in a negative way on the other, leading to a series of escalating responses. Such behaviour has been observed, likely, since humans walked the planet. It has been researched by thousands of scientists. It is known to nearly every school child. You have said nothing new.


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