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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:10 pm
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Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase our destructive hive living natures.

Cell phones are killing our social skills. The cell phone is one of the rudest pieces of technology ever developed in our modern times. To see a family of four sitting at a dinner table and all four members are texting and avoiding the bonding that should be taking place, instead of the silence that occurs; is one of society’s greatest failures. Friends are out for a night on the town and everyone has their phone out, texting and not having meaningful conversations that would be more rewarding. We cannot speak in complete sentences without the use of acronyms and do not look at others directly in their eyes while speaking to them. This society is losing the art of pure communication.

We are mammals, but we are making ourselves into that less favorable condition of hive living creatures.

Are cell phones controlling our way of life?

I say yes.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:49 pm
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cite your sources that any of this is actually true.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:14 pm

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Where's the evidence of disadvantage? The current generation, which uses modern communication the most, is the most educated both in academic matters, most tolerant and has the lowest violent crime rates probably in human history.

Who cares if they use acronyms? They are efficient.


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:21 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase our destructive hive living natures.

Cell phones are killing our social skills... technology is bad... blah blah blah


You don't cite any studies on the impact of cell phones on our social behavior or anything to support your claims. You claim that they are giving us a more hive life nature, but you don't post any support of that statement beyond sentimental waxing towards a bygone era.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:07 pm
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Instead of immediately demanding published evidence - why not use the primary evidence, which is your own experience, of (perhaps) being ignored in favour of a smart phone?

I would tend to agree with you, DL.

I've seen the same happen at staff meetings, my ex would sometimes do the same :evil: , I've socialised with people who care more about posting a status update of where they are and what they're doing, than actually being present.

The CEO where I currently work carries on talking on her phone even when myself and colleagues are trying to serve her.

Uncouth

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:43 pm
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Rory wrote:
Instead of immediately demanding published evidence - why not use the primary evidence, which is your own experience, of (perhaps) being ignored in favour of a smart phone?

I would tend to agree with you, DL.

I've seen the same happen at staff meetings, my ex would sometimes do the same :evil: , I've socialised with people who care more about posting a status update of where they are and what they're doing, than actually being present.

The CEO where I currently work carries on talking on her phone even when myself and colleagues are trying to serve her.

Uncouth

GB is in essence saying that human society is breaking down.

I disagree and say I have just as much interaction with in person people as I do with friends I would never have met except for Social media.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 1:21 am
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The OP is not complete nonsense and I urge caution not to dismiss it out of hand.

https://psmag.com/books-and-culture/pre ... ions-85805
Quote:
EVEN JUST THE PRESENCE OF A SMARTPHONE LOWERS THE QUALITY OF IN-PERSON CONVERSATIONS

New research finds having a mobile device within easy reach divides your attention, even if you're not actively looking at it.
(...)
Luddite nonsense? Actually, no. Newly published research suggests that the mere presence of a cell phone or smartphone can lessen the quality of an in-person conversation, lowering the amount of empathy that is exchanged between friends.

The study, published in the journal Environment and Behavior, confirms the findings of a 2013 lab-based study in a real-world setting. It suggests you don't have to be actively checking your phone for it to divide your attention.

"Mobile phones hold symbolic meaning in advanced technological societies," a research team led by Shalini Misra of Virginia Tech University writes. "In their presence, people have the constant urge to seek out information, check for communication, and direct their thoughts to other people and worlds."

"Even without active use, the presence of mobile technologies has the potential to divert individuals from face-to-face exchanges, thereby undermining the character and depth of these connections. Individuals are more likely to miss subtle cues, facial expressions, and changes in the tone of their conversation partner's voice, and have less eye contact."


http://www.cnbc.com/2015/10/15/social-m ... study.html
Quote:
A new survey showed that as millennials spend more time engaged on social media platforms, it's causing them to be less social in real life. The study, conducted by Flashgap, a photo-sharing application with more than 150,000 users, found that 87 percent of millennials admitted to missing out on a conversation because they were distracted by their phone. Meanwhile, 54 percent said they experience a fear of missing out if not checking social networks.
(...)
Concerns are growing that the practical impact of mobile device use is making humans more interested in their online lives, and less interested in each other.


I won't post quotes, but this slightly longer form read from The Atlantic offers a nice exposition of how engineers tweak the code to maximize the reward mechanisms in our brain and maximize time spent in apps: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... er/501122/

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 2:06 pm

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Looks the language through Inow. Gnosis says it's destructive...while your two quotes for the most part of merely suggestive of the obvious by pointing out they divide our attention and distract from the person we are face-to-face with. It appears those studies don't explore whether their smart device conversations really have less quality, as inferred by the OP, then face-to-face. I'm suggesting that it's a different form of communication, with its own subtle depths and clues etc, different but not necessarily worst--they might even be better.


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:37 pm
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The OP claimed that cell phones are killing our social skills, not that they are dividing our attention. Stating that smartphones are the rudest technology, that they're killing our social skills, and that we're losing the art of pure communication (whatever that is?) is completely alarmist. If he had said that simply they were detracting from in person communication and causing people to be less social in person that would have been more reasonable.

The following is a bit of topic for smartphones disrupting in person communication but it is a part of the OP.

I do find one point from the OP that I want to address, what does he see as the "art of pure communication"? The whole point of communicating is to convey information or news to someone else. Is there an art to that actually? Wouldn't the most direct and simple route be the most pure form of communicating? Why write a paragraph (or speak the equivalent) when you can communicate the exact same message in half the work? It's like I prefer to communicate with people through text message opposed to talking on the phone, because most of the time what needs to be said can be done in a short text rather than a phone call that is filled with tedious pleasantries that takes five times more time than the text.

One hundred and fifty years ago if you wanted to borrow some tool from your neighbor you had to physically go to their house to ask them, fifty years ago you only had to call them, today you can ask them in a text message typed in under a minute.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:11 pm
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Isn't the ability to maintain attention a social skill?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:06 am
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Rory wrote:
Isn't the ability to maintain attention a social skill?

Not necessarily. Lots of times the most flippant, distracted, and otherwise unfocused individuals are the most popular.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:06 am
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Really? It feels good to be ignored?

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:11 pm
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Rory wrote:
Really? It feels good to be ignored?

That's not what inow said, and that's not what others are saying.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:10 pm
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Quote:
Falconer360 wrote:
That's not what inow said, and that's not what others are saying.


iNow has suggested

Quote:
iNow wrote:
Lots of times the most flippant, distracted, and otherwise unfocused individuals are the most popular.


Popularity tends to arise when the popular person makes others feel good/positive. The popular person, in this case (apparently), is the most distracted. If you are distracted during conversation, your attention is not fully invested in the other person, so you are therefore ignoring at least some of the other person’s message.

One conversational partner is being (at least partly) ignorant.
The conversational partner is the most popular.
Ignorant people are popular.
Popularity arises from a desirable trait.
A desirable trait makes the beneficiaries of the trait feel good.
The beneficiaries are being ignored.
It feels good to be ignored.

That’s how iNow’s line of reasoning looks, to me. If you're going to defend that by saying the argument was nuanced ("lots of times") then fine, but it's a non-argument. Anyone can find an anomaly and build a strawman.

Lots of times women stay with abusive men. It doesn't mean to say that abusiveness is a social skill.

There's a reason we are socialised to pay attention to others.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:57 pm
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Your post suggests that perhaps you've forgetten that sometimes individuals will "feel good/positive" merely by being around the popular person... as if their own social capital increases due to proximity alone. The good feelings don't necessarily derive from being treated well or kindly.

This different perspective allows us both to be correct. It supports your stance that the person likes the popular individual because they make them feel good or positive, but posits an alternative source for those positive feelings unrelated to how one is being treated (which is the point me and a few others were making).

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:13 pm
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That may be the case, empirically, sometimes. So what?

The significance of the OP is that it potentially informs our understanding of, how we should live for all time.

The point you seem to be making is, how some people have been observed to live.

There is a qualitative ocean in between.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:40 pm
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Rory wrote:
That may be the case, empirically, sometimes. So what?

The significance of the OP is that it potentially informs our understanding of, how we should live for all time.

According to whom is the ops stance ever going to be relevent to "living for all time"? Especially given that its based on a romanticized notion of what the past was.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 7:59 pm
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Rory wrote:
The point you seem to be making is, how some people have been observed to live.

No, my point was that we can both be correct here, but if that's somehow not good enough then I'm happy to classify your position as wrong.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:43 pm
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Your point may be correct, but so what? What is its significance?

I could write to Nature journal and tell them that grass is green. I would be correct.

And the OP does help to inform how we should live for all time, in the sense that it explores every day approaches to social interaction.

My mum recently realised that Asda washing up liquid is just as good as Fairy. She's been using Fairy for 40 years. Okay, brand of washing up liquid doesn't seem like a big deal, but when you're using it every day for 40 years, it's not trivial.

Just imagine how transformative may be a seemingly insignificant tweak to social interaction.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:55 pm
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Mobile devices improve social interactions for some and worsen social interactions for others. Are you perhaps being unnecessarily confrontational here in an attempt to offer anecdotal evidence in support your stance that the latter option is more prevalent?

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anticorncob28
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:56 am
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You've posted this exact same thing on several other forums.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029322282
https://www.therealconspiracyforum.com/index.php?/topic/2177-face-to-face-not-face-to-phone-cell-phones-will-increase-our-destructive-hive-living-natures/
http://forums.liveleak.com/showthread.php?t=120038

Is this something you really enjoy talking about?

I think some people use cell phones like that, but I don't use mine at the dinner table or when I should be in a conversation with others, nor do the people I know. The study that iNow linked to only applies to holding your phone or having it on the table, as opposed to it usually being in the pocket. I can definitely see where you're coming from though.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:02 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Where's the evidence of disadvantage? The current generation, which uses modern communication the most, is the most educated both in academic matters, most tolerant and has the lowest violent crime rates probably in human history.

Who cares if they use acronyms? They are efficient.


When known, and recognized by all, sure.

Yet stats show that the next generation will not be as well educated as we are.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:05 pm
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Falconer360 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase our destructive hive living natures.

Cell phones are killing our social skills... technology is bad... blah blah blah


You don't cite any studies on the impact of cell phones on our social behavior or anything to support your claims. You claim that they are giving us a more hive life nature, but you don't post any support of that statement beyond sentimental waxing towards a bygone era.


Your own anecdotal renderings are all I likely need. Just look around at the interactions of those you know.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:14 pm
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anticorncob28 wrote:
You've posted this exact same thing on several other forums.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029322282
https://www.therealconspiracyforum.com/index.php?/topic/2177-face-to-face-not-face-to-phone-cell-phones-will-increase-our-destructive-hive-living-natures/
http://forums.liveleak.com/showthread.php?t=120038

Is this something you really enjoy talking about?

I think some people use cell phones like that, but I don't use mine at the dinner table or when I should be in a conversation with others, nor do the people I know. The study that iNow linked to only applies to holding your phone or having it on the table, as opposed to it usually being in the pocket. I can definitely see where you're coming from though.


Thanks.

I speak on issues that catch my fancy or where I think others should view information on unhealthy trends like cell phone use.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:27 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Yet stats show that the next generation will not be as well educated as we are.

Citation needed. What stats? Be specific.

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:01 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Falconer360 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase our destructive hive living natures.

Cell phones are killing our social skills... technology is bad... blah blah blah


You don't cite any studies on the impact of cell phones on our social behavior or anything to support your claims. You claim that they are giving us a more hive life nature, but you don't post any support of that statement beyond sentimental waxing towards a bygone era.


Your own anecdotal renderings are all I likely need. Just look around at the interactions of those you know.

Regards
DL

This is a science forum so actual data is desired over fairly useless anecdotes.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:10 pm
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Falconer360 wrote:
This is a science forum so actual data is desired over fairly useless anecdotes.
Sure, but with so many sources, that people will attack instead or the stats, that it is best for you guys to find your own favorite pollsters.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Face to face, not face to phone. Cell phones will increase o  |  Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:23 pm
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No data. No science. Failure to provide even when directly asked.

Thread moved.

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