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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:25 pm
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Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not nationalizing health care?

Statistics show that the average U.S. citizen pays considerably more for their, --- bankruptcy creating inhumane medical system, --- than other countries who have nationalized health care. The gain in GDP is around 3%.

It follows economies of scale gains are likely to be about 3%. If a penny saved is a penny earned, I am justified in saying that there would be a 6% saving to the average U.S. citizen.

Why are Americans wasting such a huge amount of gains, when going single payer could bring such a huge gain to each American?

I ask all my Yankee friends; what the hell? Recognize that single payer, pays great dividends.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/hea ... countries/

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 7:52 pm
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The majority of us DO! recgnize the myriad benefits.

Why do you assume we are a monolithic single minded whole?

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 8:25 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
The majority of us DO! recgnize the myriad benefits.

Why do you assume we are a monolithic single minded whole?


I do not, but if you are correct about the majority, it is a silent and rather unhelpful majority. If not the case, you would be reaping the substantial rewards.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:26 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
The majority of us DO! recgnize the myriad benefits.

Why do you assume we are a monolithic single minded whole?


I do not, but if you are correct about the majority, it is a silent and rather unhelpful majority. If not the case, you would be reaping the substantial rewards.

Regards
DL

We KNOW we would!
No it is not silent. Do you understand how the laws and function of the US government work?

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 12:21 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
The majority of us DO! recgnize the myriad benefits.

Why do you assume we are a monolithic single minded whole?


I do not, but if you are correct about the majority, it is a silent and rather unhelpful majority. If not the case, you would be reaping the substantial rewards.

Regards
DL

We KNOW we would!
No it is not silent. Do you understand how the laws and function of the US government work?


Yes. Poorly as compared to more civilized countries.

Proof.

[youtube]http://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-data-reveals-that-congress-doesnt-care-what-you-think?c=upw1&u=94acbbeb6bbd6d664157009a896e71b014efbf27[/youtube]

So much for your silent majority that is certainly not represented in your governance.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:20 pm
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So you chose to totally ignore my post and continue with your false assertion of a monolithic whole that writes our laws with no interference at all from special interest groups....

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 3:31 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
So you chose to totally ignore my post and continue with your false assertion of a monolithic whole that writes our laws with no interference at all from special interest groups....


?? I spoke to your issue.

I just showed that your majority is trumped by your lobby groups who use bribes to get what they want. More for them and less for you.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:53 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
So you chose to totally ignore my post and continue with your false assertion of a monolithic whole that writes our laws with no interference at all from special interest groups....


?? I spoke to your issue.

I just showed that your majority is trumped by your lobby groups who use bribes to get what they want. More for them and less for you.

Regards
DL


No you did not actually address my point. You (poorly)linked to a random Youtube video. I did not watch the video as I do not have access.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:35 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
So you chose to totally ignore my post and continue with your false assertion of a monolithic whole that writes our laws with no interference at all from special interest groups....


?? I spoke to your issue.

I just showed that your majority is trumped by your lobby groups who use bribes to get what they want. More for them and less for you.

Regards
DL


No you did not actually address my point. You (poorly)linked to a random Youtube video. I did not watch the video as I do not have access.


Briefly said, that link shows that congress passes laws according to what their bribing lobbyists want and not what the people want. It covers legislation over a 20 year period.

The majority does not matter. The bribes do.

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DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:44 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:

?? I spoke to your issue.

I just showed that your majority is trumped by your lobby groups who use bribes to get what they want. More for them and less for you.

Regards
DL


No you did not actually address my point. You (poorly)linked to a random Youtube video. I did not watch the video as I do not have access.


Briefly said, that link shows that congress passes laws according to what their bribing lobbyists want and not what the people want. It covers legislation over a 20 year period.

The majority does not matter. The bribes do.

Regards
DL

How is that news, and how is that NOT what i had been already telling you?

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:45 pm
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PS you have now totally contradicted your own opening post.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:11 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
How is that news, and how is that NOT what i had been already telling you?


It is. I was just confirming it via that link.

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DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:12 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
PS you have now totally contradicted your own opening post.


I do not see that from here, but whatever.

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DL


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 7:45 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Briefly said, that link shows that congress passes laws according to what their bribing lobbyists want and not what the people want. It covers legislation over a 20 year period.

The majority does not matter. The bribes do.

Regards
DL


Seems like you are diluting your own point here. Many of the most powerful lobbyist groups in the US are largely funded by citizens--the AARP and NRA for example. They might not be the majority, but the aged and gun-owners tend to vote.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:01 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Briefly said, that link shows that congress passes laws according to what their bribing lobbyists want and not what the people want. It covers legislation over a 20 year period.

The majority does not matter. The bribes do.

Regards
DL


Seems like you are diluting your own point here. Many of the most powerful lobbyist groups in the US are largely funded by citizens--the AARP and NRA for example. They might not be the majority, but the aged and gun-owners tend to vote.


I don't know about that but do not think the medical and pharma lobbyists who bribe legislation through are average citizens. If they are, then that just shows the acceptance of the briber status quo.

That would explain these stats. I understand if you do not view this link and include it more for the lurkers.

http://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-dat ... b014efbf27

Regards
DL


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 8:32 pm

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Didnt' see any vid, just the article. Also don't see a reference. Most obvious problem is opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:27 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.

We as a populace are, however, far more engaged now and paying attention closer than at any time in decades. While this lack of voting and focus on symbolism over effective tactics was often true in the past, things seem to be shifting. The young are now engaged and voting in increasing numbers. How high that number ultimately goes remains to be seen.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:59 am

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iNow wrote:
more engaged now and paying attention closer than at any time in decades. While this lack of voting and focus on symbolism over effective tactics was often true in the past, things seem to be shifting. The young are now engaged and voting in increasing numbers. How high that number ultimately goes remains to be seen.


Not really.

https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp- ... 99px&ssl=1

And if you look back decades their parcipation is actually dropping. They can almost be ignored by elected officials. While I'm usually the first one to comment when folks pick on the lazy snowflakes young adults are often referred to as by older adults (young adults are actually the best generation by nearly every measure)--one of their greatest faults is reluctance to their ample education,
getting off their ass, head out of their smart phones to do their civic duty and vote--they are partially responsible for the mess they are inherenting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_vot ... nd_Age.jpg


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:01 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Didnt' see any vid, just the article. Also don't see a reference. Most obvious problem is opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.


Then you are not a responsible citizen.

Yes I expect that policies represent the majority vote. That is democracy, although I do know that we both live in oligarchies and not democracies.

Money rules and not the people and that is why we are killing the planet.

Regards
D


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:04 pm
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iNow wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.

We as a populace are, however, far more engaged now and paying attention closer than at any time in decades. While this lack of voting and focus on symbolism over effective tactics was often true in the past, things seem to be shifting. The young are now engaged and voting in increasing numbers. How high that number ultimately goes remains to be seen.


It is my hope that intelligent young adults will take over as a voting block because we adults have sure screwed things up.

I hope we put a sense of caring for all things into them because most of us do not seem to have it.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:07 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
iNow wrote:
more engaged now and paying attention closer than at any time in decades. While this lack of voting and focus on symbolism over effective tactics was often true in the past, things seem to be shifting. The young are now engaged and voting in increasing numbers. How high that number ultimately goes remains to be seen.


Not really.

https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp- ... 99px&ssl=1

And if you look back decades their parcipation is actually dropping. They can almost be ignored by elected officials. While I'm usually the first one to comment when folks pick on the lazy snowflakes young adults are often referred to as by older adults (young adults are actually the best generation by nearly every measure)--one of their greatest faults is reluctance to their ample education,
getting off their ass, head out of their smart phones to do their civic duty and vote--they are partially responsible for the mess they are inherenting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_vot ... nd_Age.jpg


Meanwhile, knowing this, we adults and our current crop of misfit politicians, do not encourage voting by making it as easy as picking up your phone and sending a text.

The U.S. government has been accused of making things harder for people to vote and their accusers are correct.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:11 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
Didnt' see any vid, just the article. Also don't see a reference. Most obvious problem is opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.


Then you are not a responsible citizen.

Yes I expect that policies represent the majority vote. That is democracy, although I do know that we both live in oligarchies and not democracies.

Money rules and not the people and that is why we are killing the planet.

Regards
D

We live,in a democratic republic. Do not make assertions that do not qualify for the situation. CITIZENS do not write, or vote on federal law. So you are actively spouting nonsense.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:15 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
iNow wrote:
more engaged now and paying attention closer than at any time in decades. While this lack of voting and focus on symbolism over effective tactics was often true in the past, things seem to be shifting. The young are now engaged and voting in increasing numbers. How high that number ultimately goes remains to be seen.


Not really.

https://i2.wp.com/www.brookings.edu/wp- ... 99px&ssl=1

And if you look back decades their parcipation is actually dropping. They can almost be ignored by elected officials. While I'm usually the first one to comment when folks pick on the lazy snowflakes young adults are often referred to as by older adults (young adults are actually the best generation by nearly every measure)--one of their greatest faults is reluctance to their ample education,
getting off their ass, head out of their smart phones to do their civic duty and vote--they are partially responsible for the mess they are inherenting.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_vot ... nd_Age.jpg


Meanwhile, knowing this, we adults and our current crop of misfit politicians, do not encourage voting by making it as easy as picking up your phone and sending a text.

The U.S. government has been accused of making things harder for people to vote and their accusers are correct.

Regards
DL


NOT the government as a whole. Again you create a fallacy by massive overgenralization. Not certain segments of certain political parties have have been accused.

Stop lying to make your points, ones that already totally contradict your,opening assertion

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:18 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
Didnt' see any vid, just the article. Also don't see a reference. Most obvious problem is opinion polls don't reflect voters--less than half vote and young folks are notorious for ignoring elections than hitting the streets in useless protect. Do we really expect policy to represent the majority vote, rather than those that give a crap enough to bother to vote? I don't.


Then you are not a responsible citizen.

Yes I expect that policies represent the majority vote. That is democracy, although I do know that we both live in oligarchies and not democracies.

Money rules and not the people and that is why we are killing the planet.

Regards
D

We live,in a democratic republic. Do not make assertions that do not qualify for the situation. CITIZENS do not write, or vote on federal law. So you are actively spouting nonsense.


In Canada, we vote on federal laws through our elected politicians, At least that is how it is supposed to work.

If your citizens do not have a say in your laws, then you are wrong to call yourself a democracy.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:23 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
NOT the government as a whole. Again you create a fallacy by massive overgenralization. Not certain segments of certain political parties have have been accused.

Stop lying to make your points, ones that already totally contradict your,opening assertion


If you think I lie, best to ignore me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EAyiA5Rmf0

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:37 pm
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We call ourselves a democratic REPUBLIC, for the second time at least. Do you get it yet?

Again with the random youtubes. (Not an acceptable source to be honest, anyone can post utter wrap there)

And yes,I think you like, by your actions of making small segments of politician actions out to be the action of the whole.

I will not ignore you since you,are,posting falsehoods and inaccurate statements

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:46 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Not really.

(...)

And if you look back decades their parcipation is actually dropping. They can almost be ignored by elected officials.

I understand the history and trend up to 2016. No disagreement. My point was more about what's been happening since then in 2017... A suggestion that the pendulum may be switching direction. My error was inclusion of the word voting in the previous post. That too remains to be seen. Thanks for the correction.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:47 pm
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What you call yourself and what you really are, politically speaking, is not the same.

To say you are democratic, while saying that your vote is worthless, shows that what you live in is an oligarchy.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 1:59 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
What you call yourself and what you really are, politically speaking, is not the same.

To say you are democratic, while saying that your vote is worthless, shows that what you live in is an oligarchy.

Regards
DL

One of the posters has said that votes are worthless.

Why exactly are you blatently ignoring that we are NOT a democracy. We are a democratic republic, for the fifth time.....

I have pointed out your falsehoods of asserting citizens write the laws,directly (YOUR OPENING POST)

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:09 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
What you call yourself and what you really are, politically speaking, is not the same.

To say you are democratic, while saying that your vote is worthless, shows that what you live in is an oligarchy.

Regards
DL

One of the posters has said that votes are worthless.

Why exactly are you blatently ignoring that we are NOT a democracy. We are a democratic republic, for the fifth time.....

I have pointed out your falsehoods of asserting citizens write the laws,directly (YOUR OPENING POST)


Writing the law?

I talked of voting for a law, not who drafts or writes it.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:24 pm
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We dont do that either, which any basic research would have shown you.

BUT you perniciously continue to ignore how a democratic works so you can persist in your logical fallacy of an argument.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:33 pm
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Disagreements over semantics are easily resolved with a bit of patience and willingness.

GBishop - What do YOU mean when saying "democracy?"

There are, after all, many types, not just one. Constitutional republic like the USA is quite clearly one of those types, even if not the purest most direct form.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:56 pm
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iNow wrote:
Disagreements over semantics are easily resolved with a bit of patience and willingness.

GBishop - What do YOU mean when saying "democracy?"

There are, after all, many types, not just one. Constitutional republic like the USA is quite clearly one of those types, even if not the purest most direct form.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Dēmoskrátos literally "rule of the people.

That means that a voter vote is supposed to mean something and that the majority rules.

That is not the case in most democracies of today as money rules and corrupts those we put into office.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 8:15 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
iNow wrote:
Disagreements over semantics are easily resolved with a bit of patience and willingness.

GBishop - What do YOU mean when saying "democracy?"

There are, after all, many types, not just one. Constitutional republic like the USA is quite clearly one of those types, even if not the purest most direct form.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Dēmoskrátos literally "rule of the people.

That means that a voter vote is supposed to mean something and that the majority rules.

That is not the case in most democracies of today as money rules and corrupts those we put into office.

Regards
DL

Please read this page and answer iNows question again. You are not using the term correctly for this discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 5:30 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
iNow wrote:
Disagreements over semantics are easily resolved with a bit of patience and willingness.

GBishop - What do YOU mean when saying "democracy?"

There are, after all, many types, not just one. Constitutional republic like the USA is quite clearly one of those types, even if not the purest most direct form.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy

Dēmoskrátos literally "rule of the people.

That means that a voter vote is supposed to mean something and that the majority rules.

That is not the case in most democracies of today as money rules and corrupts those we put into office.

Regards
DL

Please read this page and answer iNows question again. You are not using the term correctly for this discussion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Types_of_democracy


I have no need to discuss the various definitions of democracy when in reality we are all living in oligarchies.

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746

The question is why, whatever you want to call the U.S., it and it's people are wasting their money on feeding their rich owners when they could save some cash and have a better health care system.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:30 pm
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So you are refusing to acknowledge that you are blatantly ignoring what we are telling you about US policy writing,...

Why should we entertain this thread when you refuse to understand what is told you?

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:44 am
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paleoichneum wrote:
So you are refusing to acknowledge that you are blatantly ignoring what we are telling you about US policy writing,...



Because you do not seem aware that your policies are written by your owners and given to government.

Your policy writing is as corrupted as the rest of your political system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu ... gest-vrecs

http://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-dat ... b014efbf27

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:46 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
So you are refusing to acknowledge that you are blatantly ignoring what we are telling you about US policy writing,...



Because you do not seem aware that your policies are written by your owners and given to government.

Your policy writing is as corrupted as the rest of your political system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJy8vTu ... gest-vrecs

http://www.upworthy.com/20-years-of-dat ... b014efbf27

Regards
DL

And now you're descending into woo.

Your refusal to understand our political system does not mean that you are correct

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:55 am
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Statistics do not lie.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:04 pm
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Statistics that are inappropriately manipulated and incorrectly reported by someone that is refusing to admit not understanding how the US law system works are not viable

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:11 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Statistics that are inappropriately manipulated and incorrectly reported by someone that is refusing to admit not understanding how the US law system works are not viable


I was not looking at your legal system. I was looking at who writes your laws, and that is not your legal or political system. It is your owners system.

Hence those links.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:28 pm
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Stop with the BS, our laws/policies ARE exactly what we are talking about. and as this is a science forum, statements such as "your owners" are not acceptable.

You are absolutely refusing to accept that you do not understand what you are being told, and you are coming off as a holier then thou dick as a result.

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The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:33 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Stop with the BS, our laws/policies ARE exactly what we are talking about. and as this is a science forum, statements such as "your owners" are not acceptable.

You are absolutely refusing to accept that you do not understand what you are being told, and you are coming off as a holier then thou dick as a result.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLG2jaVdUMo

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 4:43 pm
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Bishop - Is it possible that your point relates to how lobbyists and special interests tend to be the ones who write drafts of our laws? That they hand them over to congress people (maybe with a giant bag of cash) to get them enacted? That the majority of the populace is being ignored and that laws are being passed even when the majority of citizens strongly oppose them?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -authority


Also - Please keep in mind that YouTube videos are a really annoying way to support arguments. Given this is a text based medium, you might receive a more positive response by focusing on text based replies.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:19 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I was not looking at your legal system. I was looking at who writes your laws, and that is not your legal or political system. It is your owners system.

Hence those links.

Regards
DL


Who you think should write the laws? Sure the book answer is legislators, but most have to reach out to staff, or third parties for all complex subjects anyhow. Lobbyist, to a large degree, serve that purpose. There also should be no presumption that lobbyist is always bad-- when it's clear that many lobbies represent large segments of the constituency, such as the AARP, NRA etc. And even many professional groups have lobbyist--there are ones for medical companies, medical workers, veterans, environmental groups etc--each representing either large segments of the community or fully familiar with a respective subject area.

And rather than link to popular polls, you'd probably make a much stronger case, if you found something that shows voter's views aren't being represented--particularly at local and regional levels. I don't give two craps about non-voter opinions--if they don't vote they've chosen that their voice isn't worth listening to.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 5:37 pm
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iNow wrote:
Bishop - Is it possible that your point relates to how lobbyists and special interests tend to be the ones who write drafts of our laws? That they hand them over to congress people (maybe with a giant bag of cash) to get them enacted? That the majority of the populace is being ignored and that laws are being passed even when the majority of citizens strongly oppose them?

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -authority


Also - Please keep in mind that YouTube videos are a really annoying way to support arguments. Given this is a text based medium, you might receive a more positive response by focusing on text based replies.


It does.

As to links, I am damned if I do and damned if I don't as when I give my own written version of things, I will usually be asked for the source.

I cannot please everyone so as the song goes, I may as well please myself.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:46 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I was not looking at your legal system. I was looking at who writes your laws, and that is not your legal or political system. It is your owners system.

Hence those links.

Regards
DL


Who you think should write the laws? Sure the book answer is legislators, but most have to reach out to staff, or third parties for all complex subjects anyhow.


These are legal matters and I would suggest that any tweaking of legislation or even the full draft should be done by lawyers who tend to look at various aspects that they would not want a court to overturn due to badly written legislation.

Quote:
Lobbyist, to a large degree, serve that purpose.


Sure but mostly to put in what they want and not necessarily what a lawyer would when looking at the bigger picture. Canada first has a parliamentary commission look at the issues and draft a legislation that is then tweaked by lawyers who have the final draft that is debated in parliament before implementation.

Quote:
There also should be no presumption that lobbyist is always bad-- when it's clear that many lobbies represent large segments of the constituency, such as the AARP, NRA etc.


True, but legislation should be universal and specific lobby groups are only concerned with their own wants. Further, your system has many lobby groups later hired the same parliamentarians that they lobbied and likely bribed and that immoral practice should stop.

Quote:
And even many professional groups have lobbyist--there are ones for medical companies, medical workers, veterans, environmental groups etc--each representing either large segments of the community or fully familiar with a respective subject area.


See above. Your lobby groups spend millions and then get billions back from some of the legislation. I am sure some do not bribe or profit from their work but most do or they would not be wasting their time.

One example that comes to mind is medical and or just plain legal marijuana laws. It has been noted that the alcohol and tobacco lobbies have spent millions bribing officials to continue your devastating and useless war on drugs.

Quote:
And rather than link to popular polls, you'd probably make a much stronger case, if you found something that shows voter's views aren't being represented--particularly at local and regional levels. I don't give two craps about non-voter opinions--if they don't vote they've chosen that their voice isn't worth listening to.


I gave two links above that showed just that.

As to your last, the large amount of gerrymandering that your country is set up to provide has in fact made millions of votes useless. And no, I do not have a link to that well known fact.

Regards
DL


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 1:25 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Sure but mostly to put in what they want and not necessarily what a lawyer would when looking at the bigger picture. Canada first has a parliamentary commission look at the issues and draft a legislation that is then tweaked by lawyers who have the final draft that is debated in parliament before implementation.

Which means lawyers aren't writting the laws in Canada. They can't draft or write laws in most cases because they are no subject matter experts--they are an even worst position to write regulations.

Quote:
True, but legislation should be universal and specific lobby groups are only concerned with their own wants. Further, your system has many lobby groups later hired the same parliamentarians that they lobbied and likely bribed and that immoral practice should stop.

An unsupported broadbrush assumption.

Quote:
As to your last, the large amount of gerrymandering that your country is set up to provide has in fact made millions of votes useless. And no, I do not have a link to that well known fact.

A common claim by losers--such as the completely disorganised Democratic Party in the US, that has been losing ground on a massive scale, not because of gerrymandering, but because they've been completely ignoring rural America without a plan for the past 2 decades. And no, it's not wildly known.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Why are U.S. citizens ignoring the 6% gain on GDP, by not na  |  Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 3:57 pm
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Thanks for this.

Regards
DL


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