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fay's unKle
Post  Post subject: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:20 pm

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Does measured milk in, minus waste out, in newborn babies equals the increase of its weight. There must not be any conservation law violation. Are nitrogen, oxygen etc from air add-up.

Any studies to treat this subject ?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:27 pm
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Perhaps there are studies, but I'm doubtful it's that simple. We lose mass through respiration and perspiration as well (unless you're considering those as "waste" too, but that'd be an uncommon use).

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 7:45 pm
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fay's unKle wrote:
Does measured milk in, minus waste out, in newborn babies equals the increase of its weight. There must not be any conservation law violation. Are nitrogen, oxygen etc from air add-up.

Any studies to treat this subject ?

Why do you feel there would be any violation of the Law?

This seems like a very odd question to be honest.

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g o r t
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sun May 14, 2017 7:48 am

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fay's unKle wrote:
Does measured milk in, minus waste out, in newborn babies equals the increase of its weight. There must not be any conservation law violation. Are nitrogen, oxygen etc from air add-up.

Any studies to treat this subject ?


All animals work with water and food in, minus waste out. Babies are no different.
The exact breakdown of the food in and quantity matters, as does the metabolism of the animal both chemically and energetically with regards to weight gain.

Are you thinking too simplistically, or not actually asking specifically enough?


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fay's unKle
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:05 pm

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The matter subject is described clearly and fully, for the purpose of a discussion between a non-research scientist and non-research scientists. The ones who get the consequence will only fill the scope of such wonderings. Where science has reached now aided by technological innovation everything is reexamined and rethinked and measurments like these must be possible not to say easy.


"The exact breakdown of the food in and quantity matters, ......."
WHAT DOES IT MATTER.
All is needed is:
"Does measured milk in, minus waste out, in newborn babies equals the increase of its weight." We have conservation of mass to satisfy (and how air breathed is used, don't forget, atom by atom). If one uses animals in glass tube it's fine, will it change anything in our subject matter ?
Metabolism ? I am sorry, it is unlucky use of the word for here, consider the subject 2 to 3 levels higher than this.

"Why do you feel there would be any violation of the Law?" I am wondering if it has been examined. If you take it for granded, fine, but in science it is odd to accept but not prove. In philosophy maybe. "According to one tradition Pythagoras of Croton coined the Greek word meaning 'lover of wisdom' (philosopher) to contrast with the Greek word meaning 'wise man'

"Perhaps there are studies, but I'm doubtful it's that simple." If it was simple it would've been known.


Otherwise, Doing thinking leads to comprehension by completing the easily guessed and ommited.


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Mon May 15, 2017 2:22 pm

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The mass of milk, water and other food eaten + the mass of oxygen taken up in respiration will equal the weight gain of the baby + the mass of waste (crap and urine) + the weight of water lost by respiration and sweating + CO2 expelled during respiration.

Mass will be conserved but you have to factor in all inputs and outputs...

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:04 am
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fay's unKle wrote:
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The matter subject is described clearly and fully, for the purpose of a discussion between a non-research scientist and non-research scientists. The ones who get the consequence will only fill the scope of such wonderings. Where science has reached now aided by technological innovation everything is reexamined and rethinked and measurments like these must be possible not to say easy.


"The exact breakdown of the food in and quantity matters, ......."
WHAT DOES IT MATTER.
All is needed is:
"Does measured milk in, minus waste out, in newborn babies equals the increase of its weight." We have conservation of mass to satisfy (and how air breathed is used, don't forget, atom by atom). If one uses animals in glass tube it's fine, will it change anything in our subject matter ?
Metabolism ? I am sorry, it is unlucky use of the word for here, consider the subject 2 to 3 levels higher than this.

"Why do you feel there would be any violation of the Law?" I am wondering if it has been examined. If you take it for granded, fine, but in science it is odd to accept but not prove. In philosophy maybe. "According to one tradition Pythagoras of Croton coined the Greek word meaning 'lover of wisdom' (philosopher) to contrast with the Greek word meaning 'wise man'

"Perhaps there are studies, but I'm doubtful it's that simple." If it was simple it would've been known.


Otherwise, Doing thinking leads to comprehension by completing the easily guessed and ommited.


There is NO reason to assume that nursing baby humans violate the law of conservation. What OTHER options are you providing that are a better explanation for mass gain then food/water in minus excrement out equate to mass gained.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 2:13 am
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Going out on a limb here: Is it possible our OP is searching for a way to measure some concept of a soul?

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sun May 21, 2017 6:46 pm

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fay's unKle wrote:
"Why do you feel there would be any violation of the Law?" I am wondering if it has been examined. If you take it for granded, fine, but in science it is odd to accept but not prove.


No it isn't. Conservation of mass is extremely well established as a theory it's entirely reasonable to assume it applies to anything other than approaching light speed conditions--such as a baby. Feel free to investigate on your own (or ask any parent after they've fed and removed a few hundred pounds of baby poo but is only ten or so pounds heavier). If science went back and retested every trivial well-founded assumption it would never progress. Furthermore, science doesn't prove things--it adds to the pile of evidence to support or not support hypotheses.


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fay's unKle
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 3:02 pm

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Lynx_Fox: Furthermore, science doesn't prove things--it adds to the pile of evidence to support or not support hypotheses.


Please,please. Let's be normal with science. And what I posted is not science per se. It's biology in practice to explain nature.

If, though it was found that it is otherwise it would have been surprising like quantum mechanics, where actually the world is raising the hands up, saying things like: electrons are somewhere here or there or everywhere and atoms bond in this way but... not in this case, it's an exception; and there ? It's another exception.I respect science and technology as much as any one can respect, they are above anything else in my mind, and I accept its weaknesses. It is admiration we're talking.

Now then, I don't feel like explaining a lot on the observations that led to this thought but judging from the posts, I would like to ask probably only you, to bring in mind plants that grow in the wild ON ROCKS and FIVE kittens fed by one young small cat doubling their size in about 3 weeks.
Also why researchers were trying to genetically modify plants to make the absorb nitrogen from the atmoshpere through their leafs. (3% in the human body)

PS As an engineer, I say that it's extremely easy to measure everything with a puppy for example, in a glass tube on a modern very very accurate (precise) scale, while also gases and water and food going in and going out through tubes will be also measured precisely without missing anything in THE MACROCOSM.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:44 pm
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fay's unKle wrote:
Quote:
Lynx_Fox: Furthermore, science doesn't prove things--it adds to the pile of evidence to support or not support hypotheses.


Please,please. Let's be normal with science. And what I posted is not science per se. It's biology in practice to explain nature.

If, though it was found that it is otherwise it would have been surprising like quantum mechanics, where actually the world is raising the hands up, saying things like: electrons are somewhere here or there or everywhere and atoms bond in this way but... not in this case, it's an exception; and there ? It's another exception.I respect science and technology as much as any one can respect, they are above anything else in my mind, and I accept its weaknesses. It is admiration we're talking.

Now then, I don't feel like explaining a lot on the observations that led to this thought but judging from the posts, I would like to ask probably only you, to bring in mind plants that grow in the wild ON ROCKS and FIVE kittens fed by one young small cat doubling their size in about 3 weeks.
Also why researchers were trying to genetically modify plants to make the absorb nitrogen from the atmoshpere through their leafs. (3% in the human body)

PS As an engineer, I say that it's extremely easy to measure everything with a puppy for example, in a glass tube on a modern very very accurate (precise) scale, while also gases and water and food going in and going out through tubes will be also measured precisely without missing anything in THE MACROCOSM.

Given the well established nature of the Laws of conservation I will ask that you present that evidence.

What exactly led to you asking this question?

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 7:53 pm

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Quote:
PS As an engineer

As an aside I've noticed that engineers are responsible for a lot of science crackpottery on forums. Why is that? Any ideas?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Thu May 25, 2017 9:22 pm
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fay's unKle
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:57 pm

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paleoichneum, one must wonder why people who claim that are close to science are feeling surprised with this. In science mass and energy balances are tested ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE. It will be a surprise if nothing at all has been done. What exactly led me to wonder about it ? (I'm not asking in this forum this question anymore, I'm turning elsewhere.) I gave some clues, they are enough: "...bring in mind plants that grow in the wild ON ROCKS and FIVE kittens fed by one young small cat doubling their size in about 3 weeks. Also why researchers were trying to genetically modify plants to make the absorb nitrogen from the atmoshpere through their leafs. (3% in the human body)"
"Given the well established nature of the Laws of conservation I will ask that you present that evidence." What do you mean evidence, for what.

iNow, nice, you are street smart.


PhDemon wrote:
Quote:
PS As an engineer

As an aside I've noticed that engineers are responsible for a lot of science crackpottery on forums. Why is that? Any ideas?


"Unthoughtful judgement competes with Judging without knowledge." The humble me.

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:36 pm

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To quote another comedian: "You're a nutter"...

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 8:16 pm
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fay's unKle wrote:
paleoichneum, one must wonder why people who claim that are close to science are feeling surprised with this. In science mass and energy balances are tested ALWAYS AND EVERYWHERE. It will be a surprise if nothing at all has been done. What exactly led me to wonder about it ? (I'm not asking in this forum this question anymore, I'm turning elsewhere.) I gave some clues, they are enough: "...bring in mind plants that grow in the wild ON ROCKS and FIVE kittens fed by one young small cat doubling their size in about 3 weeks. Also why researchers were trying to genetically modify plants to make the absorb nitrogen from the atmoshpere through their leafs. (3% in the human body)"
"Given the well established nature of the Laws of conservation I will ask that you present that evidence." What do you mean evidence, for what.

iNow, nice, you are street smart.


PhDemon wrote:
Quote:
PS As an engineer

As an aside I've noticed that engineers are responsible for a lot of science crackpottery on forums. Why is that? Any ideas?


"Unthoughtful judgement competes with Judging without knowledge." The humble me.

Wish you the best on your eendeavors.
"may your god be with you" borrowed from a comedian


Plants photoshynthesize using water and nutrients that are often derived from the air or the rock.

The mother cat is eating the whole time, so they are getting the nutrition from that food she eats.

YOU have not shown that the law is being broken in any way.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Sat May 27, 2017 9:05 pm

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Quote:
paleoichneum, one must wonder why people who claim that are close to science are feeling surprised with this.


As others have expressed we're consistently surprised that a self-professed Engineer can be so completely ignorant about science. Nothing you've posted otherwise is remotely surprising or puts any of the 18th and 19th science you seem to confused about in doubt.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Tue May 30, 2017 11:13 pm
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fay's unKle,

We are still waiting for your definable evidence. Cats and plants are well known, and they do not break the law.

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fay's unKle
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:13 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
.... a self-professed Engineer...


Shame on you. Apologize, you get personal. Don't.

I'm here to have a good time. You don't like something, express your opinion and turn the other side.

I didn't read anything else.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:01 pm
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The description was accurate. You have claimed to be an engineer and all we have to go on is your word.

I ask folks to please calm down and focus on the thread subject.

Criticisms and feedback have been provided. It's expected that the OP respond to them with something of substance.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Milk fed babies and weight gain.  |  Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:05 pm
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fay's unKle wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
.... a self-professed Engineer...


Shame on you. Apologize, you get personal. Don't.

I'm here to have a good time. You don't like something, express your opinion and turn the other side.

I didn't read anything else.

That was not my post fay's unKle, so there is nothing to apologise for,

I still am waiting for your evidence, which i have now asked for three times.

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