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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:01 pm
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...or are crocodiles as a group much older than spinosaurs (~100mya)?



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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:10 am
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Crocodylians are a much older group, with a fossil record extending into the Triassic, and also a clearly distinct group, with notably distinct skull and pelvis morphology that places them clearly as not dinosaurs. Spinosaurids have the skull and pelvis morphology that is only seen in theropods and there descendants

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:42 am
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surely you've heard of convergent evolution ?
besides, the convergence is only limited to the skull - the body is clearly that of a theropod
as for crocodiles: they were already around in the late Triassic, hence about contemporaneous with the earliest dinosaurs + way before the first of the spinosaurs came on the scene

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm
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marnixR wrote:
surely you've heard of convergent evolution ?
besides, the convergence is only limited to the skull - the body is clearly that of a theropod
as for crocodiles: they were already around in the late Triassic, hence about contemporaneous with the earliest dinosaurs + way before the first of the spinosaurs came on the scene


So you're down with convergent evolution? Cool.

So why is the aquatic ape hypothesis so obvious pseudoscience?

On the above spinosaur question, in nine hours I got a clear answer a toddler can understand. On why human beings can't possibly be old beach apes... haven't gotten anything close to it for twenty years running. How can you expect of me to let go of the topic?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:44 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
So why is the aquatic ape hypothesis so obvious pseudoscience?

You've been told not to reintroduce AAH. Don't make me tell you again.

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:45 pm

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Reported, you are obviously just trying to reintroduce the bullshit that has got your last few threads locked by the back door here, despite mod warnings to stop harping on about it...


Hopefully you'll be gone soon...

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:04 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
marnixR wrote:
surely you've heard of convergent evolution ?
besides, the convergence is only limited to the skull - the body is clearly that of a theropod
as for crocodiles: they were already around in the late Triassic, hence about contemporaneous with the earliest dinosaurs + way before the first of the spinosaurs came on the scene


So you're down with convergent evolution? Cool.

So why is the aquatic ape hypothesis so obvious pseudoscience?

On the above spinosaur question, in nine hours I got a clear answer a toddler can understand. On why human beings can't possibly be old beach apes... haven't gotten anything close to it for twenty years running. How can you expect of me to let go of the topic?


Because there is no convergence to talk about with the jumble of ideas that get thrown around for the aquatic ape idea (failed as a hypothesis, so not appropriate to use that term)

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:18 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
marnixR wrote:
surely you've heard of convergent evolution ?
besides, the convergence is only limited to the skull - the body is clearly that of a theropod
as for crocodiles: they were already around in the late Triassic, hence about contemporaneous with the earliest dinosaurs + way before the first of the spinosaurs came on the scene


So you're down with convergent evolution? Cool.

So why is the aquatic ape hypothesis so obvious pseudoscience?

On the above spinosaur question, in nine hours I got a clear answer a toddler can understand. On why human beings can't possibly be old beach apes... haven't gotten anything close to it for twenty years running. How can you expect of me to let go of the topic?


Because there is no convergence to talk about with the jumble of ideas that get thrown around for the aquatic ape idea (failed as a hypothesis, so not appropriate to use that term)


Right...
Homo sapiens being the only ape, in fact the only simian, actually the only primate, which is functionally furless and has a layer of insulating skinfat beneath its dermis to keep warm in lieu of fur, fur otherwise being the mammalian maxim. A physiological combination that has no known convergence in any aquatic, semiaquatic or past semiaquatic mammal species. None what so ever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blubber

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:22 pm
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Quote:
Popular support for the AAH has become an embarrassment to some anthropologists who want to explore the effects of water on human evolution without engaging with the AAH, which they consider "emphasizes adaptations to deep water (or at least underwater) conditions".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_a ... opposition

(Which it doesn't, incidentally. Never has. Charles Darwin is still not a chimp, though it's much easier to read a cartoon than to actually spell your way through Origin of Species to know what you're talking about.)

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 4:35 pm
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Fur is not the mammalian maxim, and is a hindrance for long distance prey hunting. The fat layer in minute in trial peoples that actively hunt and are not first world glutton. It is not an indication of being aquatic

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:13 pm
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It's really too bad people don't listen

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:10 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
On the above spinosaur question, in nine hours I got a clear answer a toddler can understand. On why human beings can't possibly be old beach apes... haven't gotten anything close to it for twenty years running.


because in the case of the spinosaur / crocodile comparison, there's a fossil record as a tool for comparison

in the case of the AAH, there's no fossil record to speak of, so we can't even tell for sure WHEN certain properties came into being - that's why the theory has not coalesced into something where a proper discussion can take place, and that's why I call it as slippery as an eel in a bucket of snot : there's so many different versions of what it means to be an aquatic ape, and each of them gets trotted out to serve as an ad hoc stopgap for the discussion at hand

+ stop sending me PMs on the subject : I do not intend to respond to any of them :evil:

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Are spinosaurs ancestors to crocodiles...?  |  Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:30 pm
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marnixR wrote:
+ stop sending me PMs on the subject : I do not intend to respond to any of them

ditto

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