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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:36 am
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MODNOTE: This post and several that follow were split from this thread: topic2305.html


Xscience wrote:
I am a 27 year old virgin, never had sex with a girl and do not have the qualification of being a good husband. I'm not man enough, do not have money and not physically strong. I am a very weak man.

Since I am thinking about not getting married and have kids, it is essential for me to know how can I control myself. I don't want to produce another child like me and bring it to this world to suffer the way I did.

I posted this question here , so someone could give me the best scientific way to not think about this stuff.

Does quitting masturbation and porn help?


Simple enough: Chemical castration.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:03 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
Xscience wrote:
I am a 27 year old virgin, never had sex with a girl and do not have the qualification of being a good husband. I'm not man enough, do not have money and not physically strong. I am a very weak man.

Since I am thinking about not getting married and have kids, it is essential for me to know how can I control myself. I don't want to produce another child like me and bring it to this world to suffer the way I did.

I posted this question here , so someone could give me the best scientific way to not think about this stuff.

Does quitting masturbation and porn help?


Simple enough: Chemical castration.

CEngelbrecht, you failed to actually address the question. Your very barbaric suggestion totally misses the important part that Xscience was going for, not thinking about sex. (at least you didn't suggest rape and kill this time...

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:33 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Simple enough: Chemical castration.

CEngelbrecht, you failed to actually address the question. Your very barbaric suggestion totally misses the important part that Xscience was going for, not thinking about sex. (at least you didn't suggest rape and kill this time...


Chemical castration is designed to reduce libido, and it isn't permanent.

And I'm not suggesting that people should rape and kill. I'm just observing the ape species Homo sapiens doing so as an integral part of its mating ethology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:28 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Simple enough: Chemical castration.

CEngelbrecht, you failed to actually address the question. Your very barbaric suggestion totally misses the important part that Xscience was going for, not thinking about sex. (at least you didn't suggest rape and kill this time...


Chemical castration is designed to reduce libido, and it isn't permanent.

And I'm not suggesting that people should rape and kill. I'm just observing the ape species Homo sapiens doing so as an integral part of its mating ethology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males

Yes, it is permanent, hence it being used in gay men in England to punish them.

It is NOT an integral part of human culture. That is Your b's idea

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:19 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Chemical castration is designed to reduce libido, and it isn't permanent.

And I'm not suggesting that people should rape and kill. I'm just observing the ape species Homo sapiens doing so as an integral part of its mating ethology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males


Yes, it is permanent, hence it being used in gay men in England to punish them.


Or in convicted rapists and child molesters in e.g. the Danish penal system. And as I understand without it being permanent.

paleoichneum wrote:
It is NOT an integral part of human culture. That is Your b's idea


I was referring to human ethology, not culture, as this violent ethological mating trait humans share with our close cousins, the chimpanzees. But even so, violence for sex is definitely integral to a host of human cultures past and present, ISIS, biker gangs, naziism, Donald Trump, what ever.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:47 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Chemical castration is designed to reduce libido, and it isn't permanent.

And I'm not suggesting that people should rape and kill. I'm just observing the ape species Homo sapiens doing so as an integral part of its mating ethology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonic_Males


Yes, it is permanent, hence it being used in gay men in England to punish them.


Or in convicted rapists and child molesters in e.g. the Danish penal system. And as I understand without it being permanent.

paleoichneum wrote:
It is NOT an integral part of human culture. That is Your b's idea


I was referring to human ethology, not culture, as this violent ethological mating trait humans share with our close cousins, the chimpanzees. But even so, violence for sex is definitely integral to a host of human cultures past and present, ISIS, biker gangs, naziism, Donald Trump, what ever.


Just to clarify are you equating being gay with being a rapist?

No that is not human ethnology that is your personal perception of it that is not how humans are at this point and has not been for probably couple centuries equating human sex with Hitler doesn't work

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:22 pm

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The thread's gone way off course, but that being said, Engel is right about rape still being part of human cultures. It's not only sanctioned in the world's Abrahamic religious text and still followed by too many, common in war, even nonwar as part of finding mates (e.g. Ethiopia abduction marriage and 60% rapes). Even the US force sex on women was not criminal until very recently (e.g. Trump's first marriage). Science discussions should be open to "is" as well as "ought."


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:41 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Yes, it is permanent, hence it being used in gay men in England to punish them.


Or in convicted rapists and child molesters in e.g. the Danish penal system. And as I understand without it being permanent.

paleoichneum wrote:
It is NOT an integral part of human culture. That is Your b's idea


I was referring to human ethology, not culture, as this violent ethological mating trait humans share with our close cousins, the chimpanzees. But even so, violence for sex is definitely integral to a host of human cultures past and present, ISIS, biker gangs, naziism, Donald Trump, what ever.


Just to clarify are you equating being gay with being a rapist?


Now you're trolling, mate.

paleoichneum wrote:
No that is not human ethnology that is your personal perception


I'm quoting Richard Wrangham, a leading primatologist. At least there's that.

paleoichneum wrote:
of it that is not how humans are at this point and has not been for probably couple centuries


Does ISIS ring a bell?

paleoichneum wrote:
equating human sex with Hitler doesn't work


Does Eva Braun ring a bell?

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:25 pm
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I must say that I have my reservations of where this thread is going to
can we try and stick to the topic of the OP please ?

thanks

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:38 pm
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I think my point is just, that if considering how dreadfully self destructive primal human sexual behavior is, reminding yourself of that is actually a fine way of reducing unwanted libido.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:04 pm
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but surely a bit drastic and not to be chosen before other avenues have been tried and tested ?

after all, Xscience is only 27, and might regret a possibly irreversible solution ten years hence

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:21 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
I think my point is just, that if considering how dreadfully self destructive primal human sexual behavior is, reminding yourself of that is actually a fine way of reducing unwanted libido.

It doesn't do anything for most people though, since we are not primal in the ways you assert now. Yes there is a SMALL segment that feels they are entitled to take whatever they want. But it is not representative of all men. I know I do Not feel the need to take every man I see that is mildly attractive.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:38 pm
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marnixR wrote:
but surely a bit drastic and not to be chosen before other avenues have been tried and tested ?

after all, Xscience is only 27, and might regret a possibly irreversible solution ten years hence


Yeah, but, a friend of mine who's a prison guard says it's standard for some level of offences (no, no comparison intended), and that it comes in pills and shots, and that it isn't irreversible.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:57 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
I think my point is just, that if considering how dreadfully self destructive primal human sexual behavior is, reminding yourself of that is actually a fine way of reducing unwanted libido.

It doesn't do anything for most people though, since we are not primal in the ways you assert now.


I must say, I strongly disagree. Otherwise we wouldn't be on the verge of another world war. You can't take the ape out of the human being.

paleoichneum wrote:
Yes there is a SMALL segment that feels they are entitled to take whatever they want. But it is not representative of all men.


It would be representative of the ones, that half the human gene pool descend from. Those males are the ones who secure the mating rights, they are the ones impregnating the fertile females at a very high degree. Which is why we can see a heavy imbalance between the number of males and females, that has produced the human gene pool. Our gene pool descend from a much higher number of females than number of males, even though they contribute fifty percent of it each. And the male dominating the other males, however corrupt or blood thirsty he must be to be so, that male secures the mating rights. That is primal human mating behaviour from maybe five million years back. And it's far from being just from rape; there's a host of young females right now actively leaving Fortress Europe to become ISIS wives. And they are not all muslims. So young ladies don't call these males violent psycopaths, they choose to call them 'bad boys,' but the one defining factor is, that they dominate the other males, whether by headbutting them around dance clubs, or beheading them and putting on BlackTube. Dominating the other males is the one and only trait fertile females respond to, when they're ovulating and instinctively want to be impregnated (and head for that dangerous and exciting biker bar in a cleavage...). That's when the females dictate, which males are to further their genes, the only biological meaning of life there is. And it's not the sweet, ethical male ensuring peace in the pack so the harvest comes in, that turns them on twose two to three days out of 28, very far from it. It is the fraticider. That's why human primal mating behavior is so self destructive, 'cause as this eon old ape species, we make war before we make love. All war is about sex, and never was about anything else. War, that defines all of human history.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/srinivasa ... 79411.html
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150811 ... fight-wars
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... veals.html

paleoichneum wrote:
I know I do Not feel the need to take every man I see that is mildly attractive.


No, 'cause that's the key difference between men and women: Men are primally programmed to impregnate all the virgins they can get away with, while women are primally programmed to be impregnated by the one male that dominates all the other males. That's the only reason why "50 Shades of Grey" is a best seller. It's not about the SM, it's about this fictional Mr. Grey being a billionaire architect with 100 people slaving for him in his company in the glass and concrete tower. Two generations ago, Barbara Cartland wrote fantasies about Dukes and Barons, it's exactly the same thing. A generation before that, female fantasies in the West were about being stolen away to an Arab hareem by Valentino. That's not exactly trending right now, is it?

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:00 am

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There's a lot wrong with your post Engel, namely you've taken one aspect of human behavior and are trying to argue as if that's the evolutionary predisposition of all males. Evolution doesn't work that way. From other animals, where there's less of a cultural/learning aspect it's clear that most social animals have a full range of behaviors that are attempted (by mutations) to obtain reproductive success--sometimes it's aggressive behaviors, which you seem to be applying to all, other times its cooperative strategies or rearing strategies, both of which also confer an advantage. Usually the species settles towards a proportion of several, often wildly varying strategies.

Your entire argument assumes humans only have one of these reproductive strategies, which belies a deep misunderstanding of evolution. Your assumption that the OP turn to one of these strategies and has that predisposition compounds your misunderstanding as well as being irresponsible given cultural attempts to suppress those behaviors most places.

I'll leave your neglect of the huge human cultural learning effect on behavior for another post.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:26 pm
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Charles Manson in prison attracts females in the fertile age. When women are between the age of 15 and 25, that is when they're the most fertile, that is when they're supposed to create the next generation, before a predator eats them. And that oddly enough is the exact age, when they all instinctively venture to have sex with psychopatic males they then spend the rest of their lives trying desperately to keep their daughters from having sex with. Which isn't working, not even in cultures, where daddy has to kill a promiscuous daughter to restore the family honour. There is no hope for humanity, 'cause we will always be the same ape. 10,000 years being an agricultural ape that needs peace in the tribe to secure the harvest, is not gonna null a five million year old hunter-gathering ape, whose primal mating behaviour is males killing each other to arouse fertile females in heat. Only two species on the whole of planet Earth has exhibited that exact mating behaviour, Pan troglodytes and Homo sapiens. Which just happens to be each other's closest genetic cousins. You want a perfect analogy for what the hell we're doing with all that warfare, look to chimps. Nothing embarasses you like a relative.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2014/09/ ... each-other
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travis_(chimpanzee)

Understand, I hate this mating behaviour. I don't want to be a member of such a self destructive species. But it's very poor science to reject irrefutable observations and conclusions just because we don't like them. It's grotesque to keep claiming we're the peak of evolution, when we can see every single human male rushing out to fuck up the other males as soon as he grows into fertility. War is very much a male thing, would you not agree?

The old Abrahamic and Dharmic religions, which is the foundation of about half our contemporary Western ethics, were right in fearing sex and impose strong restrictions on it in a society, especially on women. Those mythologies arose with the earliest of agricultures. If you suddenly have to cooperate by the scores to secure more food for a larger population, you can't really allow females to choose their own mate, 'cause the ancient hunting ape sees females allured by males butchering the other males. And the harvest won't land, if the boys are out slaughtering each other in the fight for the mating rights, and then the tribe will starve. And now we can see what happens in the West, when females are actually allowed free sex again. Then fertile females can't wait to take the plane to Aleppo to shag ISIS boys, even though the whole world knows, they're one big rape club. "Thanks for the trust, Ma and Pa, I'm off to be knocked up by a fraticider, 'cause I'm a woman now!" In this feminist West, this shouldn't be possible, should it? And we're not exactly talking about singular cases.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... years.html

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:35 pm
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i don't know - this all sounds very ultra-deterministic to me
as if everyone is totally at the mercy of your species genes, and culture doesn't play any role - i thought that sort of thinking had faded into the background as being bad science with Robert Ardrey's killer ape caricature

if only a few centuries can make our species less murderous, why couldn't the same happen for sexual attitudes ? after all, not everyone feels compelled to find psychos sexually attractive

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:48 pm
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marnixR wrote:
i don't know - this all sounds very ultra-deterministic to me
as if everyone is totally at the mercy of your species genes, and culture doesn't play any role - i thought that sort of thinking had faded into the background as being bad science with Robert Ardrey's killer ape caricature

if only a few centuries can make our species less murderous, why couldn't the same happen for sexual attitudes ? after all, not everyone feels compelled to find psychos sexually attractive

Very very few find murderers sexually attractive. It just happens they get press. Engel Is wholly avoiding that every subdemographic of culture has the same following. Lol stars get millions more followers, but that contradicts Engel so he ignores it for his cherry picked position

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:51 pm
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marnixR wrote:
i don't know - this all sounds very ultra-deterministic to me
as if everyone is totally at the mercy of your species genes, and culture doesn't play any role - i thought that sort of thinking had faded into the background as being bad science with Robert Ardrey's killer ape caricature

if only a few centuries can make our species less murderous, why couldn't the same happen for sexual attitudes ?


Are you seriously arguing, that we are now in any way less murderous as a species?



marnixR wrote:
after all, not everyone feels compelled to find psychos sexually attractive


No, only when they're ovulating. A.k.a. when they're in heat.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/he ... essive-men

To quote:
Quote:
"However, ovulation can make the choice between dads and cads particularly challenging. Research has revealed that during ovulation, women show a weakness for masculine men with high-quality genes. Studies consistently show that fertile women prefer men who display macho facial features and social dominance. In other words, they like bad boys. Building on these findings, Gilda Biebel of the University of Konstanz and her colleagues reasoned that evolution may have also favored men who went to war. Consequently, they wondered if aggression might also be a signal of genetic fitness."

Unquote.

I'm not exactly making this crap up myself. This is you, sapiens. And me.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:57 pm
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Yes engel, statistically we are a hell of a less murderous soecues, and your quote mine is making the false equivalence that macho = killer. It doesnt, at all and your reference does not make that assertion either.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:03 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Yes engel, statistically we are a hell of a less murderous species,


The history of the world didn't exactly begin in 1914.

paleoichneum wrote:
and your quote mine is making the false equivalence that macho = killer. It doesnt, at all and your reference does not make that assertion either.


Is warfare very much a man's game? Yes or no? And do men largely venture to kill only men? Yes or no?

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:09 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Yes engel, statistically we are a hell of a less murderous species,


The history of the world didn't exactly begin in 1914.

paleoichneum wrote:
and your quote mine is making the false equivalence that macho = killer. It doesnt, at all and your reference does not make that assertion either.


Is warfare very much a man's game? Yes or no? And do men largely venture to kill only men? Yes or no?

Both questions are red herrings. So there is no need to answer them.

Do you acknowledge your false equivalence of macho=war/killer?

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:23 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Is warfare very much a man's game? Yes or no? And do men largely venture to kill only men? Yes or no?


Both questions are red herrings. So there is no need to answer them.

Do you acknowledge your false equivalence of macho=war/killer?


No, I do not. 'Cause a proper war is young men going to the front to slaugther other young men. The US civil war, that's a real war! A young man in his sexual prime, standing in line, shooting away at the other blokes, untill a cannon ball splits his skull? That's bravery, that's sexy! Survive that carnage at very poor odds, then you're entitled to return home and mate with the Belle of the Ball. Then you're a bloody hero. Total war in the 20th century? Take out some of the non-combattants (elder men, women, children) just to win a damn war? That's not cricket, that's not real war. You're not supposed to kill womenfolk in warfare, 'cause they're the spoils of war! They're the only reason the boys go to war in the first place! And if you should dare to actually lose a war??? Come home from Vietnam without being the hero, you ain't getting none! "War, what is it good for?", that attitude has only emerged in the 20th century, after total war. After millenia of gruesome warfare being no problem what so ever for a just civilization. 'Cause by and large, only men got killed.

Quote:
"Was this the face that launch'd a thousand ships? And burnt the topless towers of Ilium?"
- Christopher Marlowe, on the mythical beauty of Helen of Troy


Image

All war is about sex. It has never been about anything else. If you want to avoid warfare, reduce the sex drive. And yes, I know it's an oxymoron, 'cause the sex drive is what creates the next generation and keeps humanity in artificial stasis.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:39 pm
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Wow, talk about an evidence less, baseless bull rant.

Nothing of what you have,posted is anything more then you personally getting aroused by the concept of horny young men fighting.

It's not based on reality

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:24 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Wow, talk about an evidence less, baseless bull rant.

Nothing of what you have,posted is anything more then you personally getting aroused by the concept of horny young men fighting.

It's not based on reality


What's on the cover of every single book on the history of the world? War. Warfare defines humanity. 'Cause for Homo sapiens, war equals furthering your genes, the only biological meaning of life there is.

Quote:
"In order to prevent the millennium folk from forgetting that the history of the world is the history of war."
- Lt. Col. Charles à Court Repington & Major Johnstone, in coining the term 'the first world war' on 19th September 1918

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:26 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
The thread's gone way off course
marnixR wrote:
I must say that I have my reservations of where this thread is going

Agreed. Thread has been split and moved

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:27 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
What's on the cover of every single book on the history of the world? War. Warfare defines humanity. 'Cause for Homo sapiens, war equals furthering your genes, the only biological meaning of life there is.
Nope, war is not the point of humanity, sorry.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Scientific approach to reduce sex drive?  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:03 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
Very very few find murderers sexually attractive. It just happens they get press. Engel Is wholly avoiding that every subdemographic of culture has the same following. Lol stars get millions more followers, but that contradicts Engel so he ignores it for his cherry picked position


(nods).

Quote:
What's on the cover of every single book on the history of the world? War.

You should read more. I suggest Euclid. Sappho and for some cultural diversity and universal theme Omar Khayyam.


There is lots of ways to be attractive to prospective mates and help offspring come to reproductive age and thus improve biological success-- it's ignorant to ignore all but one of them.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:46 am
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This ain't a science site. This smells like censorship.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:06 am
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You're not helping the boy, unless you tell him the truth: That sex is the cause of all human misery.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:18 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
This smells like censorship.

Your posts have not been edited, they remain visible to all and exactly as you submitted them, and your posting privileges are (thus far) unchanged and unrestricted.

Calling that censorship offers little more than further evidence of your apparent disconnect from reality.

Back on topic, please.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 2:20 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
You're not helping the boy, unless you tell him the truth: That sex is the cause of all human misery.

if you tell someone that, your flat out lying to them. YOU and YOU alone seem to have a fixation on "kill the men, and dominate the women". That is not a view that is related in any way to reality.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:28 am
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
You're not helping the boy, unless you tell him the truth: That sex is the cause of all human misery.

if you tell someone that, your flat out lying to them. YOU and YOU alone seem to have a fixation on "kill the men, and dominate the women". That is not a view that is related in any way to reality.


Take it up with Richard Wrangham. Who actually knows about primates.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 180953329/

Tell me that one doesn't have analogies with the human ape. Lifetime shows is all about that, innit?

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:08 am
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All those women in help centers, trying desperately to flee a psychopath they couldn't wait to be impregnated by back when they were at their hormonal prime. Are we supposed to feel sorry for her own choice after everyone around her desperately tried to warn her from shagging that lowlife? Are we seriously supposed to feel sorry for a teenager taking the plane to Syria to get with a guy she saw decapitating another guy in Cyberspace, who then ends up being a sex slave for recruitment purposes and in the end gets her skull caved in with the rifle butt of that Kalashnikov, that got her lustful in the first place? Men are perfectly accountable for their hormonal sickness. Why aren't women? Because they carry life in their womb? What life do they plop out in the name of procreation? In cultures, where are actually allowed to choose.

At least give me an answer instead of just shoving away the question 'cause you don't like it. I'm raised with the same Western humanism as the rest of you, but I'm sick to the bone of listening to crying women I knew in my youth, that none of us could prevent from fucking some piece of shit, just 'cause he made the other boys so wonderfully nervous. 'Cause it's a big fat lie, that men are the only problem in that equation. There would be no bloody reason for men to destroy the world, if it didn't get them sex. Sex is all men want.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 4:28 am
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Just because it's negative doesn't make it pseudoscience.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:29 am

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CEngelbrecht wrote:
Take it up with Richard Wrangham. Who actually knows about primates.


Perhaps if you link an article you should do use the good service of reading all of it. "As the researchers noted to Duke Today, while chimps are our closest relatives, "mating behavior varies significantly between our two species."

Which very much is the theme that makes look like a foolish myopic idiot with little understanding of science nor interest in discussing observations from others that point to different interpretations or components of the same subject. Would you, for example, consider bonobo, who's even closer to humans into your singular interpretations--I doubt it. Who's had more reproductive success? Trump, General Patreus, or Mick Jagger? As others have been telling you in humans and most social species there's a broad range of behaviors rewarded with reproductive success in both males and females--ranting about one narrow aspect is ludicrous.

Thanks mods for moving the disruptive commentary.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:03 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Would you, for example, consider bonobo, who's even closer to humans into your singular interpretations--I doubt it.


By all means, the bonobo experiment has indeed been done with Homo sapiens in recent times, during the age of the hippies. Which didn't last a decade, the experiment failed and the patient died.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altamont_Free_Concert



Lynx_Fox wrote:
Who's had more reproductive success? Trump, General Patreus, or Mick Jagger?


Albert Einstein, one candicate for the most intelligent Homo sapiens in the 20th century, was a rare egg head, in that he left two children to the human gene pool. While Mel Gibson so far has left eight. You do the math.

When the mushroom clouds finally fill the Earth, it will be because of Einstein's work.

"Friends, we have split the atom! What do you want to do with it?"
"Let's make a BOMB!"

"Lads, we have managed to make perfect electronic 3D environments! What do you want to do with it?"
"Let's make kill simulators!"

Image

Lynx_Fox wrote:
As others have been telling you in humans and most social species there's a broad range of behaviors rewarded with reproductive success in both males and females--ranting about one narrow aspect is ludicrous.


As we can clearly see, 10,000 years of agriculture in no way nulls the five million year old violent ape. It is arrogant to think yourself supreme to the very natural forces that created your species. Why the hell are we on the verge of another world war, if not for this very mechanism? Weren't the first two more than enough?

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:18 am
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Understand, I really hate having this interpretation. There's no hope in it.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:42 am

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(shrugs). The age of Hippies didn't fail, in fact, probably the greatest reduction in global violence has been in the past 50 years.

Image

I also think we've probably never been further from a global war in modern times, specifically because it's far more advantageous to be cooperative and more disadvantageous to fight wars even if you win than any time in human history.

---
Quote:
Understand, I really hate having this interpretation. There's no hope in it.

You still don't see the problem. It's not that your view is entirely wrong, as much as you refuse to acknowledge that it's not the only reproductive/sexual behavior "game" leading to satisfaction and reproductive success.

Personally. I've never had trouble getting women before my 32+ year marriage, because I was a bit wild when younger, attractive and talented, but never particularly aggressive towards anyone, never started a physical fight. nor ever "wanted" a virgin (too much damn baggage). Most men are more like myself than the pussy grabbing, man-killing monster you seem to think is the only approach hardwired into all men. In living with Arabs in Iraq, I seldom witnessed anything like your claim, nor did I in several months in Thailand, nor several years in other war-torn crap holes. Sure there are men like that (I did meet a few), and women attracted to them, but as a general rule, you couldn't be more wrong.

Unless you show some interest in an actual discussion this is my last post in the thread.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 7:09 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
(shrugs). The age of Hippies didn't fail, in fact, probably the greatest reduction in global violence has been in the past 50 years.

Image


Again, human history didn't exactly start in 1945. Find me a graph estimating the same going back a couple of millenia, then we can continue. It's only in the 20th century, that warfare really fell from favour and was seen as a negative. And that attitude is quickly disippating again.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
I also think we've probably never been further from a global war in modern times,


Does the name Vladimir Putin mean anything to you???

Lynx_Fox wrote:
specifically because it's far more advantageous to be cooperative and more disadvantageous to fight wars even if you win than any time in human history.


It is only advantageous to be cooperative by the scores for an agricultural ape, and that ape is only max 10,000 years old. It's a completely different story for a hunting-gathering ape, that is 5+ million years old. That is the time frame that has shaped us as a species. We are not programmed to be the cultural ape, but to be the ethological ape. Ever since the earliest of city states in the Fertile Crescent, we can read a constant dissonance between the cultural and the ethological ape. Otherwise we wouldn't need laws to try and keep peace, so we can cooperate and secure the bloody harvest.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
Personally. I've never had trouble getting women before my 32+ year marriage, because I was a bit wild when younger, attractive and talented, but never particularly aggressive towards anyone, never started a physical fight.


Win any football games, by any chance?

Lynx_Fox wrote:
Most men are more like myself than the pussy grabbing, man-killing monster you seem to think is the only approach hardwired into all men. In living with Arabs in Iraq, I seldom witnessed anything like your claim, nor did I in several months in Thailand, nor several years in other war-torn crap holes. Sure there are men like that (I did meet a few), and women attracted to them, but as a general rule, you couldn't be more wrong.


Except when the womenfolk are ovulating. Between the age of 15 and 25, right when they are the most fertile. That's when they lay with the exact type of men, they regret the rest of their lives. Right when they're biologically programmed to further their genes. I'm not saying that, psychiatric research is.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:27 am
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No, I didn't think so.

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:42 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
Except when the womenfolk are ovulating. Between the age of 15 and 25, right when they are the most fertile. That's when they lay with the exact type of men, they regret the rest of their lives. Right when they're biologically programmed to further their genes. I'm not saying that, psychiatric research is.

You are ignoring that many women never feel any attraction to those sorts of men even in that age range.

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:45 am

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The nutter is in pseudoscience, let it rot. If you don't respond to his nonsense he'll get bored and go away...

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:06 am
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Falconer360 wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Except when the womenfolk are ovulating. Between the age of 15 and 25, right when they are the most fertile. That's when they lay with the exact type of men, they regret the rest of their lives. Right when they're biologically programmed to further their genes. I'm not saying that, psychiatric research is.


You are ignoring that many women never feel any attraction to those sorts of men even in that age range.


Correction: They claim...

Women invent their own language. They don't call the real stud psycho- or sociopath. They call him "a bad boy."

Repeated double blinded experiments clearly show, that there's a helluva difference between what type of male a fertile woman is arroused by, depending on where she is in her menstrual cycle. The guy doing the dishes and changing the diapers and doing all that nesting crap the real man is piss ass indifferent with, that sweet and sensitive male may be fine for 26 days out of her 28, but not the last 2 when she's ovulating, which is when she's in heat by any biological definition. When she's ovulating, as a standard she is indeed much more prone to get turned on by psycho- and sociopaths. Simply because he dominates the other males, no matter if he steals and corrupt, or decapitate other males and put the video online. That is the very male any human female is ethologically programmed to want to be impregnated by. Don't like it, take it up with psychiatric science, I got nothing to do with it, all I do is quote people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/srinivasa ... 79411.html

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:11 am
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PhDemon wrote:
The nutter is in pseudoscience, let it rot. If you don't respond to his nonsense he'll get bored and go away...


All the counters so far has been nothing more than wishful thinking about ourselves, which is not in any way backed up by actual science. The only reason this was moved in here, is because I refuse to lie to you.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:12 am
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
The only reason this was moved in here, is because I refuse to lie to you.

Erm, no.

You're badly misrepresenting the science.
Your gross generalizations are easily disproven.
You're ignoring valid counter arguments and simply repeating yourself.

None of these bode well for your thread or your account.
If things don't change, action will be taken for soap boxing.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:19 am
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iNow wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
The only reason this was moved in here, is because I refuse to lie to you.

Erm, no.

You're badly misrepresenting the science.
Your gross generalizations are easily disproven.
You're ignoring valid counter arguments and simply repeating yourself.

None of these bode well for your thread or your account.
If things don't change, action will be taken for soap boxing.


At least I provide sources, even if you think you don't have to check them out. Just because you don't like me, doesn't mean the people I quote are wrong.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:26 am
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Don't you find it ridiculous, how a large portion of academic consensus relies on liking or disliking personalities?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:35 am
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Back on topic please

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:43 am
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iNow wrote:
Back on topic please


Except for anyone else feeling like calling me a nutter, just 'cause I say out loud, what you don't want to be true: That Homo sapiens' primal mating behaviour is the cause of all its misery. In this grossly overpopulated hamster cage we live in.

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