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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:39 am
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You're of course free to choose to continue your nonsense, but doing so will likely have consequences and attacking me or our members is not going to help your cause

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:18 am

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CEngelbrecht wrote:
Except for anyone else feeling like calling me a nutter, just 'cause I say out loud, what you don't want to be true: That Homo sapiens' primal mating behaviour is the cause of all its misery. In this grossly overpopulated hamster cage we live in.


Which is completely contrary to the clear data that shows the more urban our species becomes the least likely those nasty dominating behaviors are exhibited.

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Don't you find it ridiculous, how a large portion of academic consensus relies on liking or disliking personalities?
A good share of the community, including myself, spent time being part of that academic community at one time or another. While personality certainly plays a part, it's a long down the list after good reasoning, objective evidence and value of their contributions to their scientific fields of study. That being said, complete asshats will struggle, because their more trouble to handle than their potential contributions.

To answer your question... I didn't play football (of any form). The closest I ever got to a team sport was being expert class Hobie 16 catamarans good enough to get an invite to try for the Tornado class Olympic team (I had other priorities--girls, college etc)--highly athletic, competitive and a strong sense of sea and wind state from a life on the water made me nearly unbeatable--successful racing days and really fun crazy nights that only the pre-aids mania early 80s could bring. (hmm...the memories!)

Yes you come off as a nutter, not because you don't occasionally make good points, but because you don't consider other's arguments into your particular views and tend to rant, try to support your rants with often unrelated or distantly unrelated "evidence" rather than discuss things like a science minded rational person. (e.g. your Huffington post that's mostly about the small % of insecure women). You also seem to have no understanding of competing beneficial mutations, usually just picking on one to argue to absurdum --a continuing theme in your many years or engagements. Finally, and sadly, the persecution complex...a common indicator or fuzzy pseudoscience thinking(sigh)

Good bye.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 8:48 am
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iNow wrote:
You're of course free to choose to continue your nonsense, but doing so will likely have consequences and attacking me or our members is not going to help your cause


But attacking me is fine, right? I mean, I'm the one ruining the party. In here, we're supposed to pat each other on the back and reassert each other, what a magnifiscent fabled species, we are. While ISIS keep decapitating bozos and Charles Manson attract fertile females in prison, all in the name of human procreation.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:16 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Except for anyone else feeling like calling me a nutter, just 'cause I say out loud, what you don't want to be true: That Homo sapiens' primal mating behaviour is the cause of all its misery. In this grossly overpopulated hamster cage we live in.


Which is completely contrary to the clear data that shows the more urban our species becomes the least likely those nasty dominating behaviors are exhibited.


Right, 'cause there are no street gangs out there.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
Quote:
Don't you find it ridiculous, how a large portion of academic consensus relies on liking or disliking personalities?
A good share of the community, including myself, spent time being part of that academic community at one time or another. While personality certainly plays a part, it's a long down the list after good reasoning, objective evidence and value of their contributions to their scientific fields of study. That being said, complete asshats will struggle, because they're more trouble to handle than their potential contributions.


Uhuh. Untill the day you'd be in the right, when the majority is in the wrong. Then you'll quickly see, just how belittled the scientific method is in the face of human arrogance and gorilla dominance. Then you might end up the frustrated "asshat," before you know it.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
To answer your question... I didn't play football (of any form). The closest I ever got to a team sport was being expert class Hobie 16 catamarans good enough to get an invite to try for the Tornado class Olympic team (I had other priorities--girls, college etc)--highly athletic, competitive and a strong sense of sea and wind state from a life on the water made me nearly unbeatable--successful racing days and really fun crazy nights that only the pre-aids mania early 80s could bring. (hmm...the memories!)


Well, there you have it. Sailing is sociologically an upper class activity, like tennis is. So, there you have a dominating factor. I would say that's exactly how you landed a mate: Because such an activity exhibits some kind of status. Which is the only element human females respond to subconsciously in the name of procreation. Which in a lot of social standings on the human planet unfortunately is achieved much easier with a bloody Kalashnikov.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
Yes you come off as a nutter, not because you don't occasionally make good points, but because you don't consider other's arguments into your particular views and tend to rant, try to support your rants with often unrelated or distantly unrelated "evidence"


"Previously thought unrelated." That can happen. That's exactly what Einstein did with relativity. Or Newton did with an apple. Or Darwin did with finches.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
rather than discuss things like a science minded rational person. (e.g. your Huffington post that's mostly about the small % of insecure women).


"Insecure women"... Right. Now you're just trying to sleep at night.

Lynx_Fox wrote:
You also seem to have no understanding of competing beneficial mutations, usually just picking on one to argue to absurdum --a continuing theme in your many years or engagements. Finally, and sadly, the persecution complex...a common indicator or fuzzy pseudoscience thinking(sigh)


My only crime here is seeing the human being as an animal species, and not a particular remarkable one at that. And see everything in that light. I fail to see how that's bad science, or though I understand perfectly, that's it's a strong survival instinct for this arrogant ape to think it's apex. While the males keep on slaughtering each other in the fight for the mating rights. If humans are anything, it's capable of completely ignoring the forest for all them damn trees. Who is ignoring clear data here?

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:48 am
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Let me paraphrase Richard Wrangham's point: How many species are known on planet Earth that are social, but where the males, as soon as they grow into fertility exhibit intense violence... against their own species?

I'll tell you the answer: Two - Pan troglodytes and Homo sapiens. On the entire planet Earth, only two species out of the billions known have been observed to routinely and predictably kill members of their own species in socially organized warfare. And by far, for both those two species, it is males killing other males. (Take a country like the US of A, where 95% of acts of violence yearly are committed by men, while 75% of the victims of said violence are men.) Both of these two said species are hominoids, and they just happen to be each other's closest genetic cousins - humans and chimps. In the case of chimps, primatologists observe that their male violence is linked strongly to their mating ethology - the pursuit of furthering their genes to the next generation, the strongest single drive in any species. So assuming, that the origin of chimp and human violent behavior would be shared in a Homo/Pan common ancestor living 5-7 million years ago according to consensus, and if this violence in chimps is part of their mating behavior, what would be the parsimonous conclusion as to what the ethological mechanism of human violence, and therefore warfare, is? Now that organized, intraspecies, male-to-male lethal violence is so bloody rare in the tree of life, that it's observed in these two exact species only?

Jane Goodall of all people made an apt description, when she wrote about the so-called Gombe Chimpanzee War, which lasted four years in Central Africa in the 70s. A conflict that has its own Wikipedia page, listing the conflict exactly like any human war or individual battle, 'cause the traits of the conflict are precisely the same. You want to see a perfect analogy for what the hell we're doing, you look to our cousin. To quote from the Wiki listing:

Quote:
”The outbreak of the war came as a disturbing shock to Goodall, who had previously considered chimpanzees to be, although similar to human beings, "rather 'nicer'" in their behavior.[7] Coupled with the observation in 1975 of cannibalistic infanticide by a high-ranking female in the community, the violence of the Gombe war first revealed to Goodall the "dark side" of chimpanzee behavior.[7] She was profoundly disturbed by this revelation; in her memoir Through a Window: My Thirty Years with the Chimpanzees of Gombe, she wrote:
'For several years I struggled to come to terms with this new knowledge. Often when I woke in the night, horrific pictures sprang unbidden to my mind—Satan [one of the apes], cupping his hand below Sniff's chin to drink the blood that welled from a great wound on his face; old Rodolf, usually so benign, standing upright to hurl a four-pound rock at Godi's prostrate body; Jomeo tearing a strip of skin from Dé's thigh; Figan, charging and hitting, again and again, the stricken, quivering body of Goliath, one of his childhood heroes.' ...[8]”


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

Tell me that doesn't sound like straight out of Lord of the Flies. Or any report out of fucking Aleppo. Nothing embarrasses you like a relative, right?

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:45 pm
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This guy.. Cengelbrecht.. he reminds me of someone from the other forum...


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:39 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
This guy.. Cengelbrecht.. he reminds me of someone from the other forum...


*SIGH*

Isn't this usually the sign of not being able to win the argument? When you divert attention away from the argumentation and onto the proponent?

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:45 pm
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Do go on... Did you participate on the other forum? The .com?


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 pm
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He did, with the same lack of science rigor, and the same blatant lack of biology understanding.

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:00 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
He did, with the same lack of science rigor, and the same blatant lack of biology understanding.


Are we an ape species or not? I was taught in school, that that was concensus.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:02 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
He did, with the same lack of science rigor, and the same blatant lack of biology understanding.


Are we an ape species or not? I was taught in school, that that was concensus.

Your focus on what species that are millions of years diverged from us is irrelevant. So stop notching on about it.

.Taylor lautner gets thousands more women and men followers then Manson foes, YET you are too myopic to admit it

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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:16 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Are we an ape species or not? I was taught in school, that that was concensus.


Your focus on what species that are millions of years diverged from us is irrelevant. So stop notching on about it.


Right, 'cause ISIS boys aren't decapitating other males to win the mating rights. Where some adolescent, newly fertile females seek them out voluntarily, to the point of actively buying a plane ticket. If the ethological mechanism described by Richard Wrangham isn't at play here, how in the HELL would you then explain that phenomenon??? God and Satan doesn't exist.

Only two species on the entire planet Earth conduct organized warfare against its own species. And those two ape species just happens to be each other's closest relatives. Helluva coincidence, if that extremely rare murderuous trait has popped up for completely different behavioral reasons, wouldn't you think? If all that gruesome male violence is about sex for chimps, what would be parsimonous to conclude, that exactly the same behaviour is about for humans?

You're still a slave to the biological rules that created you, sapiens. No matter how much you lie to yourself, thinking you can choose your own destiny. Don't like it, take it up with Richard Wrangham. Or hell, Jane Goodall. I ain't dictating human nature.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:37 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
Are we an ape species or not? I was taught in school, that that was concensus.


Your focus on what species that are millions of years diverged from us is irrelevant. So stop notching on about it.


Right, 'cause ISIS boys aren't decapitating other males to win the mating rights. Where some adolescent, newly fertile females seek them out voluntarily, to the point of actively buying a plane ticket.


WTF???

Please.. Where are the mods???


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:50 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
CEngelbrecht wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Your focus on what species that are millions of years diverged from us is irrelevant. So stop notching on about it.


Right, 'cause ISIS boys aren't decapitating other males to win the mating rights. Where some adolescent, newly fertile females seek them out voluntarily, to the point of actively buying a plane ticket.


WTF???

Please.. Where are the mods???


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... veals.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabina_Se ... _Kesinovic

Indeed. WTF!!! Why did they even go on that f... plane in the first place??? The males ain't the only problem here, it's a symbiosis between both genders. No male would become a violent psychopath... if it didn't arouse fertile females. Then there'd would be no biological reason to. Then man-kind would have no war. "But ma, he dominates the other males, I'm in love..."

Image

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"The suppression of uncomfortable ideas may be common in religion or politics, but it is not the path to knowledge. Accepted and conventional ideas are often wrong, and fundamental insights can arise from most unexpected sources."
- Carl Sagan


Last edited by CEngelbrecht on Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:57 pm, edited 3 times in total.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:54 pm
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We are animals and we belong to the Primate order. And we have evolved, from a sociological point of view, far from other species... so we are a little more complex in that area. Don't be so simple and basic.


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:04 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
We are animals and we belong to the Primate order. And we have evolved, from a sociological point of view, far from other species... so we are a little more complex in that area. Don't be so simple and basic.


Image

Image

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... inter.html

No, I'm sorry, I fail to see how in the hell we have evolved in any significant way away from our core primate behaviour. 10,000 years of agriculture very much comes up short compared to 5+ million years of ape-dom.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:08 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... veals.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabina_Se ... _Kesinovic

Indeed. WTF!!! Why did they even go on that f... plane in the first place??? The males ain't the only problem here, it's a symbiosis between both genders. No male would become a violent psychopath... if it didn't arouse fertile females. Then there'd would be no biological reason to. Then man-kind would have no war. "But ma, he dominates the other males, I'm in love..."

Image


Yopu're saying that as if all women did that. Only a minority... probably women born in that depressing environment. Or a few exceptions. But there are 3500 billions women in the world. And there's a lot of diversity in matters of relationships...


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:12 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
No, I'm sorry, I fail to see how in the hell we have evolved in any significant way away from our core primate behaviour. 10,000 years of agriculture very much comes up short compared to 5+ million years of ape-dom.


Cause you're ignorant and prefer reading sensationalist press....


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:16 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
You're saying that as if all women did that. Only a minority... probably women born in that depressing environment. Or a few exceptions. But there are 3500 billions women in the world. And there's a lot of diversity in matters of relationships...


Except that psychiatric science has detected a clear tendency in fertile females being sexually drawn towards psychopaths... when they're ovulating. That's when human females are in heat, meaning that's when their preference dictates which male will win the biological competition. It turns out it's very far from the peace maker, the women instinctively wants to be impregnated by. Regardless of any cultural impact. You still can't take the ape out of the human, and it's arrogant to think we ever could.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/he ... essive-men
https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/07 ... g-success/

Understand, I hate this to the bone too, but if that's our species... that's our species. Beating me up for telling you ain't gonna make it go away. There's a reason why ISIS is still around.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:19 pm
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I didn't know that human males were all psycopaths ... Interesting information.. and scientifically proven. How does that make you feel?


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:21 pm
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I know how I feel when I'm ovulating... and "in heat" does not describe it at all.

But I'm 31. According to your way of thinking my fertile years have passed....


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CEngelbrecht
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:36 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
I know how I feel when I'm ovulating... and "in heat" does not describe it at all.


Ever woken up next to a guy wondering, "Why did I go home with him? He's scum!" Or had a girlfriend that did? And hurried out to find that morning after pill, 'cause she suddenly realized where she was in her cycle the night before? Suddenly fancing heading for that dangerous and really exciting biker bar in a cleavage. Or maybe going home with the CEO, when his wife was out of town with their kids, what ever was your fancy. And then getting real cross, when the pig suddenly tells you, he doesn't want to divorce the B. For some reason, the girl never sees it as a problem, that she whipped them out for a male, she knew perfectly well wasn't available. She wasn't at fault here, noo, noo.

M_Gabriela wrote:
But I'm 31. According to your way of thinking my fertile years have passed....


All I have seen so far is that when the womenfolk are the most fertile between the age of 15 and 25, that's when they do all the freaky sexual acts, they strangely regret the rest of their lives. This in cultures, that actually allow them to choose their own mate. Which is very far from a planetary standard, would you not agree? And you know why? 'Cause most cultures try to keep peace in the tribe, and from double blinded research, it would seem that women primally want to be impregnated by fraticiders, this as soon as they grow into fertility. This might work for a hunter-gathering ape, but for an agricultural ape forced to cooperate by the scores, the harvest ain't gonna come in so people don't starve to death, when the boys are out slaughtering each other in the fight for the mating rights.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:00 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
Ever woken up next to a guy wondering, "Why did I go home with him? He's scum!" Or had a girlfriend that did? And hurried out to find that morning after pill, 'cause she suddenly realized where she was in her cycle the night before? Suddenly fancing heading for that dangerous and really exciting biker bar in a cleavage. Or maybe going home with the CEO, when his wife was out of town with their kids, what ever was your fancy. And then getting real cross, when the pig suddenly tells you, he doesn't want to divorce the B. For some reason, the girl never sees it as a problem, that she whipped them out for a male, she knew perfectly well wasn't available. She wasn't at fault here, noo, noo.


No, that never happened to me before...

What I see is a lot of femicides. On daily basis... That also has biological explanations. Males keep their ignorant and authoritary conduct. And if the females don't do as they say, males hit females and even kill them and their offspring.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: CEngelbrechts Misguided Notions of Sex & Human Nature  |  Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:07 pm
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CEngelbrecht wrote:
I'm sick to the bone of listening to crying women I knew in my youth, that none of us could prevent from fucking some piece of shit <...> Except when the womenfolk are ovulating <...> While ISIS keep decapitating bozos and Charles Manson attract fertile females in prison <...> No male would become a violent psychopath... if it didn't arouse fertile females <...> All I have seen so far is that when the womenfolk are the most fertile between the age of 15 and 25, that's when they do all the freaky sexual acts <...> women primally want to be impregnated by fraticiders


Right then. We're done here now. Don't reintroduce the topic.

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