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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:25 am

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The U.S. will be next in a long line of nations to kick us out. :( Be thankful you weren't born with this curse.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:04 am
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Judaism is a religion, not a genetic trait or a curse. There are tensions in the US right now, no doubt, but we don't yet know what happens next.

People may rise up in support. People may resist. Hatred may extinguish. We don't know...yet.

All we can do is each of us contribute of our own voices as individuals to the cacophony and work to sway our peers down the path of moral righteousness... to steer ourselves as a species once more back toward the right side of history.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:30 am

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Of course it's genetic. It doesn't matter how devout I might be. My name and appearance give me away.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:51 am
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I understand that's what you think, but I believe you are wrong.

There are many qualities in humans that are genetically based. Religious choice or denomination is not one of them.

People born in a certain region or country may share a handful of genetic predispositions with others who have a long family history in that same region.

Certain beliefs may drive people to only be allowed to mate with specific populations... or families may mandate that children only marry others who share the same belief system or faith. That can cause certain genetic characteristics to become more common in those populations, but even then they're only predispositions.

People may mate with others who are closely related to them or who are distant cousins and introduce increased genetic mutations... a sort of "inbreeding-lite."

None of this, however, is tied to being a Jew or a Christian or a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Hindu or any of the countless thousands of other religions humans have invented through the eons.

These belief systems and religions are not about genes. They're about cultures. In much the same way, acts of aggression and statements of bigotry against certain groups like Jewish or Muslim people are also expressions rooted in ones local culture or family expectations.

Do you disagree? If so, will you explain a bit more and help me understand why?

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:14 am

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You don't need to be religious, you don't even need to be Jewish. Jews are often blamed collectively for the actions of Stalin (a Georgian atheist) and a video I watched just tonight (after I posted this thread) on John Rockefeller (German protestant) had hundreds of "greedy jew!" comments. So I don't think "it's not race, it's culture" is going to convince anyone. :roll:


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:59 am
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I like to think that anti-semitism is now nowhere near at the same level as a century ago
remember, the 1920s and the 1930s were the heyday of eugenics, something that we fortunately have not seen again

even vandalism can bring unexpected shows of compassion : US Muslim community campaigns to repair Jewish cemetery

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:54 pm

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I'll be impressed when they denounce the terrorist groups they've vocally supported in the past.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:07 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
a video I watched just tonight (after I posted this thread) on John Rockefeller (German protestant) had hundreds of "greedy jew!" comments. So I don't think "it's not race, it's culture" is going to convince anyone. :roll:

You don't think it's a local culture that teaches people such comments are acceptable, or that it's culture that tells people such comments and behaviors are unacceptable? Why not?

We're a social species. We do things to fit in with those around us and avoid being shunned from the group. If we associate ourselves with a group who thinks that jews are bad and that comments in Youtube like "greedy jew!" are acceptable, then it's because we're part of a culture that agrees such things are acceptable.

It's become more common and visible since the election of Donald Trump, but it's still a result of culture... While these behaviors and expressions of ignorance and hatred were previously shunned and ostracized and marginalized and less common in the recent past... all of it is the result of culture and... more specifically... cultural expectations.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:10 pm

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I'm not sure what you're saying.


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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:49 pm

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iNow wrote:
LilSaber wrote:
a video I watched just tonight (after I posted this thread) on John Rockefeller (German protestant) had hundreds of "greedy jew!" comments. So I don't think "it's not race, it's culture" is going to convince anyone. :roll:

You don't think it's a local culture that teaches people such comments are acceptable, or that it's culture that tells people such comments and behaviors are unacceptable? Why not?

We're a social species. We do things to fit in with those around us and avoid being shunned from the group. If we associate ourselves with a group who thinks that jews are bad and that comments in Youtube like "greedy jew!" are acceptable, then it's because we're part of a culture that agrees such things are acceptable.

It's become more common and visible since the election of Donald Trump, but it's still a result of culture... While these behaviors and expressions of ignorance and hatred were previously shunned and ostracized and marginalized and less common in the recent past... all of it is the result of culture and... more specifically... cultural expectations.

I completely fail to see what the election of Donald Trump has to do with the OP.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:21 pm
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wireless wrote:
I completely fail to see what the election of Donald Trump has to do with the OP.

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you.

Incidents of racial slurs, discrimination, violent attacks and other related hate crimes against Jews (and Muslims) has spiked since Trump became the nominee and since groups like the KKK and Breitbart etc. all endorsed him and were never challenged by him or his team.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_ ... ction.html
Quote:
Since the election of President Donald Trump, news outlets and social media accounts have swelled with reports of swastikas at schools, racist taunts, and other hate-fueled attacks and acts of intimidation. The Southern Poverty Law Center, which has aggregated media reports and gathered submissions from its website, catalogued 1064 such incidents, 13 of which were later debunked as false reports, in the first month after Trump won the presidency.


More info here (and below): https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/201 ... g-election


Image

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:26 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
I'm not sure what you're saying.

The people around us form our culture.

If those people think it's wrong to discriminate against others, then your culture shuns those people who do discriminate or speak slurs and you tend to see it happen much less frequently... it becomes much more common.
If those people think it's okay to discriminate others, then your culture accepts those people who do discriminate or speak slurs and you tend to see it happen much more frequently... it becomes much more common.

What you're describing is not genetic. You're not genetically Jewish or Christian. The hate you describe is also not genetic (though, we're apes that share a common ancestor with chimpanzees, so there's a bit of tribalism involved... like rooting for the Yankees and hating the Red Sox... but that's a bit of a different topic).

No, the hate was learned. Christian babies don't come out of the womb looking down on Jewish babies. The hate was taught. It was reinforced as acceptable by leaders in their local community. It's a result of the people around them. It's a result of culture and it's the outcome of that culture defining for them what is and what is not acceptable behavior.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:20 pm

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I never said hate was genetic. Being Jewish, or any ethnicity is.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 10:30 pm
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so what you're saying is that being Jewish is not just down to religion
in short, it's possible to be a secular Jew, whereas something like a secular Christian or Muslim is a contradiction in terms

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:44 am

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Close enough, yes.


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:54 am
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LilSaber wrote:
The U.S. will be next in a long line of nations to kick us out. :( Be thankful you weren't born with this curse.

The US will never kick the Jewish people living here out. The US would go to civil war before something of that magnitude happened.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:48 am

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Not soon, but these things take time. In Germany it began with a boycott of Jewish businesses. There's widespread boycotting of Jewish businesses in the west today. Hopefully that's where the similarities will end. But we will always need to remain alert.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 1:42 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
There's widespread boycotting of Jewish businesses in the west today.

I read a lot, but have not yet encountered this news. Can you share something here (like a link or a news article) to help me learn more?

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:56 pm

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They call themselves BDS.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:16 pm
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That doesn't answer my question. Please try again.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:24 pm

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I'll just drop the subject.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 4:03 pm
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Why? I am genuinely curious. I asked you a question because I want to learn more about what you're thinking. Why won't you join me in finding shared understanding? This isn't a contentious question. It's not an attack on you or anything you're saying. I just asked where you were reading this so I could learn more. Will you please help?

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:00 pm

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This is all common knowledge. BDS exists on hundreds of campuses and I've known plenty of people who support it. They claim to only be anti Israel (as if hating a nationality is somehow not bigotry) but boycott Americans with links to Israel. They smashed up the Starbucks in California while screaming "zionists" since the CEO is Jewish. They also forced an American singer of Jewish descent to sign a statement against Israel or risk protest. Meanwhile no boycott exists for the 22 countries where Jews cannot be citizens.


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:50 pm

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It may be common knowledge where you live but it obviously isn't elsewhere. If it is so common you should easily be able to provide a link to a news story about it. Why aren't you doing that as has been politely requested? You haven't even said what the acronym BDS is short for... I have visions of rogue anti-Semitic dentists smashing up coffee shops! ;). On a serious note, though, if you want to fit in around here and be taken seriously answering a request for a link with "it's common knowledge" isn't on. We all have different backgrounds and come from different parts of the world, you can't get away with that...

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:06 pm

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I've managed to find this : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott ... _Sanctions are these the guys you mean?

I can't find any information about an attack on a Starbucks in California but I found articles describing anti-BDS legislation in California (for example http://www.jerusalemonline.com/news/wor ... -bds-23067) Could you please provide a link giving information about the Starbucks attack?

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:06 pm

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I don't even want to read that reply. :?


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:13 pm

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Then I see no reason to take anything you say seriously...

I will no longer bother to read your posts, goodbye and good luck...

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:17 pm

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Thank you.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:27 pm

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And bye to those that liked me, if there are any.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:17 pm
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sorry to see you go

maybe you see this forum as too confrontational ? however, in the end, all we want is debate and communication - maybe from time to time this comes across as too forceful, but in the end that's because we don't like it when someone withdraws from a debate for no good reason

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:37 pm

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I just knew I'd get hostility for this thread.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:47 am
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There is no hostility coming from me, at least not consciously or intentionally. If you feel otherwise, then I apologize for choosing my words so poorly.

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:00 am

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I don't think there was any hostility from me either... There is frustration at her piss-poor method of running away and saying "I'll drop the subject" whenever she is asked a question or asked to defend a statement... This isn't the first time she's done it and it winds me up...

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:53 pm

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I can't post links on my phone.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:06 pm

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But I'm on my laptop now so here. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opin ... story.html

Better?


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:16 pm

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Did it occur to anyone that I'm genuinely scared? Especially since there's really no place I can go IRL to voice my concerns. When the tide turns violent, as it does in every generation, there's only one possible place we can hope to find safety and coincidently that's the same country that is reviled by the supposedly not anti-Semitic BDS movement, which yes, does stand for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. They are trying to make the economy of Israel collapse. It's laughable, they won't succeed, but trying to is just as evil.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 6:19 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
Did it occur to anyone that I'm genuinely scared?

Yes, of course, and that's why I was so interested to learn more. Thanks for the link. I'll take a look!

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:37 am

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Well there you go. Now maybe you get it.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:39 am
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I suspect I "get" more than you realize

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:28 pm

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Any fear of being tossed out of the US are completely unjustified--there's NO chance of any official position based on religion or genetics to remove any group.

That being said, there are lots of idiots all too willing to ostracise Jews or commit violence against them. Sometimes it's overt anti-Semitism, a stalking horse whose roots lie deep in both Christian and Islam writings, sometimes because the same Christian fundamentalist, almost always woefully ignorant about the Abrahamic faiths, can't tell the difference between them.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:05 pm

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pHDemons reply wasn't as bad as I was expecting.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:35 pm

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I apologize for jumping the gun.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Jew hatred in the US  |  Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:13 am
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An incredible, insightful, important 22 minutes. These people respect strength. We must push back against them with overwhelming force, overwhelming numbers, and overwhelming passion. Silence is no longer an option.

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