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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:02 pm

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Person A "Extremely talented ship builders built the Wyoming out of wood using modern technology, and it kept twisting and turning, leaking, needed steam engines to pump out water, and couldn't stay afloat safely. You're telling me that a working wooden ship far larger was built several thousand years ago by 8 people? Wood isn't even a suitable material."

Person B "The bible states that Noah had faith in God, and God helped Noah build the ark, using the divine knowldge he was given. The knowledge surpasses modern technology, so using modern technology is insufficient to disprove Noah's ark."

How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine interven  |  Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:09 pm

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That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence... Next!

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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine interven  |  Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:17 pm
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Roamer wrote:
so using modern technology is insufficient to disprove Noah's ark."


That is quite correct, but irrelevant. The onus is one the speaker B to prove that the ark did exist, and he can't.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine interven  |  Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:09 pm
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Be blunt and say God did it is not a viable argument, and that geology, dendrochronology, varves, and written text histories all show that the flood is myth.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine interven  |  Posted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 9:09 pm
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try and find "The ark before Noah" by Irving Finkel
he's an Assyriologist who found a tablet showing that the predecessor of the bible's ark was a giant coracle, which makes sense, since the marsh arabs in southern Iraq still used similar but smaller coracles at the start of the 20th century

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine interven  |  Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:33 am
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Roamer wrote:
Person A "Extremely talented ship builders built the Wyoming out of wood using modern technology, and it kept twisting and turning, leaking, needed steam engines to pump out water, and couldn't stay afloat safely. You're telling me that a working wooden ship far larger was built several thousand years ago by 8 people? Wood isn't even a suitable material."

Person B "The bible states that Noah had faith in God, and God helped Noah build the ark, using the divine knowldge he was given. The knowledge surpasses modern technology, so using modern technology is insufficient to disprove Noah's ark."

How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?


Person A would not waste time in answering Person B.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 12:26 pm
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Roamer wrote:
Person A "Extremely talented ship builders built the Wyoming out of wood using modern technology, and it kept twisting and turning, leaking, needed steam engines to pump out water, and couldn't stay afloat safely. You're telling me that a working wooden ship far larger was built several thousand years ago by 8 people? Wood isn't even a suitable material."

Person B "The bible states that Noah had faith in God, and God helped Noah build the ark, using the divine knowldge he was given. The knowledge surpasses modern technology, so using modern technology is insufficient to disprove Noah's ark."

How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?


My best advice is that you should consider it just a myth and go to see what the Jews thought before looking to see what Christianity made of it.

You have to remember that the Christians wanted to denigrate the Jews and they did so by putting strange interpretations to the Jewish take on things.

Note that Eden was a place of elevation to the Jews while Christianity wrongly interpreted the myth as where man had his fall.

Judaism preaches the Rise of man: and instead of Original Sin, it stresses Original Virtue, the beneficent hereditary influence of righteous ancestors upon their descendants’.

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2013/10/ ... -theodicy/

Jews apply Midrash to their works while Christianity foolishly reads the myth literally and think it shows real events.

If you have time, listen to this Midrash on the flood from a Rabbi. It s a slow listen but you might glean a new view. They should have done some editing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAJkiUHizhk

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 4:06 pm
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Given that all of the abrahamic faiths are myth, most of what gb posted is gibberish

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 7:09 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Given that all of the abrahamic faiths are myth, most of what gb posted is gibberish


Then all the fairy tales we use are gibberish.

Myths and fairy tales are often used today to try to educate kids on moral issues.

In that sense the Jews are better at using their myths as compared to Christianity reading myths as history.

Your question was, "How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?"

I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 10:29 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

He didn't

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Mon May 01, 2017 11:25 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Given that all of the abrahamic faiths are myth, most of what gb posted is gibberish


Then all the fairy tales we use are gibberish.

Myths and fairy tales are often used today to try to educate kids on moral issues.

In that sense the Jews are better at using their myths as compared to Christianity reading myths as history.

Your question was, "How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?"

I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

Regards
DL


Not all fairy tails are gibberish, but they they are not to be taken as meaning god exists.
It should also be clarified: YOU are of the OPINION that Jewish interpretation is better then Christian. However, that is all it is, opinion, and one that's based on the egregious lumping and homogenizing the the entirety of the two groups into single data-points so you can make the assertion. That is what makes your comments repeatedly false.

Also, I didnt ask that at all, so you, again, fail.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 2:59 pm
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

He didn't


"How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?"

Eh. Ok.

I must have miss-understood.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 3:02 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Given that all of the abrahamic faiths are myth, most of what gb posted is gibberish


Then all the fairy tales we use are gibberish.

Myths and fairy tales are often used today to try to educate kids on moral issues.

In that sense the Jews are better at using their myths as compared to Christianity reading myths as history.

Your question was, "How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?"

I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

Regards
DL


Not all fairy tails are gibberish, but they they are not to be taken as meaning god exists.
It should also be clarified: YOU are of the OPINION that Jewish interpretation is better then Christian. However, that is all it is, opinion, and one that's based on the egregious lumping and homogenizing the the entirety of the two groups into single data-points so you can make the assertion. That is what makes your comments repeatedly false.

Also, I didnt ask that at all, so you, again, fail.


Not till my OPINION is proven wrong.

I did not homogenize Jews and Christians but did put Jewish thinking above Christian thinking.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:25 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I think I gave a reasoned answer. If you did not want such you should not have asked.

He didn't


"How should person A respond to this undisprovable fact/theory?"

Eh. Ok.

FFS. It bothers me I need to clarify something so mind numbingly simple.

You're confused and seem to think that paleoichneum (the person with whom you're interacting) is the same person that created this thread. He's not.

The OP is Roamer, but you're interacting with paleoichneum.

Better now?



Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Not till my OPINION is proven wrong.

That's just not how it works. The onus is on you to provide evidence in support of your opinion, not on us to disprove it. You make assertions, you need to back them up.

Image

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:28 pm
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You did homogenize each group making ALL jewish sects the same, and all Christian sects the same. That is utterly fallacious.

NO, it is up to YOU to provide the supporting data, you have failed so far, for the reason above.

Also you have yet to provide any evidence of any god existing at all.

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The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:07 pm
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iNow wrote:
[
FFS. It bothers me I need to clarify something so mind numbingly simple.

You're confused and seem to think that paleoichneum (the person with whom you're interacting) is the same person that created this thread. He's not.

The OP is Roamer, but you're interacting with paleoichneum.

Better now?



Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Not till my OPINION is proven wrong.

That's just not how it works. The onus is on you to provide evidence in support of your opinion, not on us to disprove it. You make assertions, you need to back them up.



I gave my argument showing it was not gibberish by showing the value of myths.

I also said that Jews were brighter than Christians as they did not interpret their myths as history.

If you disagree, show why.

Better now?

If not, go away.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 9:09 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
You did homogenize each group making ALL jewish sects the same, and all Christian sects the same. That is utterly fallacious.

NO, it is up to YOU to provide the supporting data, you have failed so far, for the reason above.

Also you have yet to provide any evidence of any god existing at all.


I do not get into logical fallacies.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:24 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
You did homogenize each group making ALL jewish sects the same, and all Christian sects the same. That is utterly fallacious.

NO, it is up to YOU to provide the supporting data, you have failed so far, for the reason above.

Also you have yet to provide any evidence of any god existing at all.


I do not get into logical fallacies.

Regards
DL

By generalizing all of Judaism into one concept, you very clearly create a fallacy,

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 10:38 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
You did homogenize each group making ALL jewish sects the same, and all Christian sects the same. That is utterly fallacious.

NO, it is up to YOU to provide the supporting data, you have failed so far, for the reason above.

Also you have yet to provide any evidence of any god existing at all.


I do not get into logical fallacies.

Regards
DL

By generalizing all of Judaism into one concept, you very clearly create a fallacy,


I showed one clip on Midrash.

That is hardly showing all Jews as one concept. They are everywhere from atheist to right wing fundamental, and my own favorite, since they thing the way Gnostic Christians do and put men above God, the Karaite Jews.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:04 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I gave my argument showing it was not gibberish by showing the value of myths.

I also said that Jews were brighter than Christians as they did not interpret their myths as history.

If you disagree, show why.

Stop trying to move the goalposts. You were quite obviously conflating the posts of two members, confusing Paleo with the OP. That was my point.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Better now?

If not, go away.

I encourage you to refrain from replying in this manner if you desire to maintain your posting privileges at this site.

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iNow

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Noah's ark works because it's built with divine intervention  |  Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 3:13 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:

I showed one clip on Midrash.

That is hardly showing all Jews as one concept. They are everywhere from atheist to right wing fundamental, and my own favorite, since they thing the way Gnostic Christians do and put men above God, the Karaite Jews.

Regards
DL

you have consistently stated that "jews" are better than "christians". with no indication as to what sects you are looking at. Hell anyone could be said to be better then Christians if only a sect like the Westboro Baptists are looked at.

You still refuse to understand that your creating a false argument by diluting your data with you bs generalizations.

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