FAQ
It is currently Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:45 pm


Author Message
marnixR
Post  Post subject: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 8:42 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
we've been working on a local RIGS (regionally important geological site) location, and have been successful in exposing calcrete levels in the Llanishen conglomerate (early Devonian)

Image

just recently we've returned to the site to clear up leaves and washed off soil that's accumulated over the past autumn and winter months
no problem there, however, we noticed that moss had started to grow on large parts of the rock face, which, if not treated, forms a layer where ferns and other plants can take hold

my question is : is there any way that the rockface could be treated in order to prevent this growth ? since the site is in a local nature reserve, we can't obviously use anything that might be detrimental to nearby wildlife - all we want to do is to keep the geological exposure free of moss, but the surrounding plants (especially the bluebells) should not be affected

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:15 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 224

Offline
marnixR wrote:
we've been working on a local RIGS (regionally important geological site) location, and have been successful in exposing calcrete levels in the Llanishen conglomerate (early Devonian)

Image

just recently we've returned to the site to clear up leaves and washed off soil that's accumulated over the past autumn and winter months
no problem there, however, we noticed that moss had started to grow on large parts of the rock face, which, if not treated, forms a layer where ferns and other plants can take hold

my question is : is there any way that the rockface could be treated in order to prevent this growth ? since the site is in a local nature reserve, we can't obviously use anything that might be detrimental to nearby wildlife - all we want to do is to keep the geological exposure free of moss, but the surrounding plants (especially the bluebells) should not be affected

Did you come up with any ideas? It seems a very difficult problem to me .You want a "selective weedkiller" for moss.

I think acetic acid does work for moss but I am fairly sure it will kill other vegetation too.


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:02 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
no solution thus far - for the time being we used stiff (but not metal wire) brushes, but that's hard work and doesn't keep the moss off
someone in the group was talking about some thick liquid moss killer which would hopefully stick yo the rock and not spread too far

on the next visit we'll see if anyone has brought any along and we might try a small section to see how it goes

my question was to try and see whether there were other options that we might have overlooked

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:06 pm

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:44 am
Posts: 482
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne

Offline
Could you go down the biological control route and find a critter that eats moss but not the other plants in the area?

_________________
"The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart"

- Kurt Vonnegut, The Sirens of Titan


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:39 am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
I must admit that I don't know of any such controls
after all, we're only a small group of people with a mostly geological background, and not well-versed in pest control

besides, doesn't biological controls require a tortuous approval route ? and require means of containment ?

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:57 am

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:44 am
Posts: 482
Location: Newcastle-upon-Tyne

Offline
marnixR wrote:
I must admit that I don't know of any such controls
after all, we're only a small group of people with a mostly geological background, and not well-versed in pest control

besides, doesn't biological controls require a tortuous approval route ? and require means of containment ?


Possibly, I don't know, I'm a chemist! Just thinking out loud...

_________________
"The big trouble with dumb bastards is that they are too dumb to believe there is such a thing as being smart"

- Kurt Vonnegut, The Sirens of Titan


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:38 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
A harmless yet deadly herbicide?

A solution I've employed... is, well, I doubt you'll believe me 'cause I get nothing but "does not compute" incredulity from others. I'll put it round-about:

When you take a potato or a bunch of spinach from the refrigerator, they're alive. These plants might take root and sprout or flower if given the chance. But after you've immersed them in boiling water or steamed them, they're dead. A cooked carrot in the soil is worm-food. Same for mosses and ferns. You can boil/steam the life out of them where they stand. Of course there's no toxic residue. You might like to eat the fiddleheads while they're still hot.

Around the yard it's easy to dump a potfull of boiling water over some unwanted plants. But how to heat sufficient volumes of water in the field, how much earth do you need to saturate? For a modest investment you could buy a propane burner sized for the huge pots people use for canning. You said you washed the rockface before. So no harm sloshing more water across it. :)



The common treatment for moss (on roofs) is zinc. Ribbons of pure zinc are affixed near the peak, where rainwater picks up a trace of zinc as it runs down. There's some controversy whether it really works. You can also get zinc suspended in a solvent (I think it's "mineral spirits") sold as wood preservative. You can spray that. Antifungal. But though treated wood is blithely placed all over the landscape including protected areas, I dislike the idea of fungicide leeching through the soil. Tree roots depend on symbiotic fungi at their tips.


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:51 am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
Pong wrote:
Around the yard it's easy to dump a potfull of boiling water over some unwanted plants. But how to heat sufficient volumes of water in the field, how much earth do you need to saturate? For a modest investment you could buy a propane burner sized for the huge pots people use for canning. You said you washed the rockface before. So no harm sloshing more water across it.


our group is very low budget, so unless someone has any equipment available, we don't have the funds to buy anything that's even moderately expensive
still, I might enquire if anyone can get hold of some steam cleaning equipment, or a type of high pressure hose some people use to clean their drive - although, being a conglomeratic deposit we don't want to go dislodging large chunks of rock

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:22 am

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 224

Offline
marnixR wrote:
Pong wrote:
Around the yard it's easy to dump a potfull of boiling water over some unwanted plants. But how to heat sufficient volumes of water in the field, how much earth do you need to saturate? For a modest investment you could buy a propane burner sized for the huge pots people use for canning. You said you washed the rockface before. So no harm sloshing more water across it.


our group is very low budget, so unless someone has any equipment available, we don't have the funds to buy anything that's even moderately expensive
still, I might enquire if anyone can get hold of some steam cleaning equipment, or a type of high pressure hose some people use to clean their drive - although, being a conglomeratic deposit we don't want to go dislodging large chunks of rock


Well if you are considering steam ,it may be better to just use a roofing flame torch.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/roofing-torch

Perhaps you only need to cover a small area? Just a vertical section to show some layers of the rocks?


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:23 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
a flame torch might be worth considering
we'll have to see what it does to the rock face on a small scale before we apply it on a wider area

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:45 pm
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
Maybe in damp weather when the rock face is already wet and the calcrete has water in its pores. Charcoal staining won't be possible unless you boil off all the water (overkill).

Either way wants a tank of propane, a hose for that, attached to a large flame burner of some kind; and water. Geordief's idea swaps a camp stove for a roofer's torch, eliminates the pot, and has nature deliver the water herself. His is better.


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:56 am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
I was thinking of something like this - do you think it might cover sufficient surface area ?

Image

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:15 am

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 224

Offline
marnixR wrote:
I was thinking of something like this - do you think it might cover sufficient surface area ?

Image


I doubt it. It would be more accurate though and you might use to test out on a small area whether it is a good idea.

I wonder if you think you will have to repeat the process in a few months . Is this just for ease of working or is it a permanent display for the public?

If the growth is thick it may require quite a lot of heat ,but as used in the garden for weeds the idea is to catch new growth very young and burst the "blood vessels" when they are vulnerable .


Top
paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:02 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 444

Offline
marnixR wrote:
a flame torch might be worth considering
we'll have to see what it does to the rock face on a small scale before we apply it on a wider area

I will note, During a stratagraphic dig at the Stonerose site, (Me and Falconers site) a roofing torch was used to dry the shale. The areas that were dried had expansion/shrinking fractures form as the moisture left the areas, and the matrix heated up.

It may work for your site temporarily, though maybe making the outcrop face more susceptible to increased weathering, and it will only last a small time, as the next rains will bring more moss/lichen/fern spores down from the vegetation at the top and restart the growth.

_________________
The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: RIGS site clearance  |  Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:44 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4786
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
ok, in that case it's probably sticking to something mildly obnoxious to moss and ferns, supplemented by elbow grease ?

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   


Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC


This free forum is proudly hosted by ProphpBB | phpBB software | Report Abuse | Privacy