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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 7:46 pm

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And I'm tired of it. I feel helpless and confused. Climate science isn't something I know much about. But if what people say is true and it's too late to do anything why bother with anything anymore? And why aren't more people talking about it? Are we all going to be killed by this thing? If so..I wish it would hurry up. Living in fear's no way to live. :|


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:27 pm
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I recently read Peter Wadhams' "A farewell to ice: a report from the arctic", and he's of the opinion that the models and the most recent IPCC report seriously underestimate how fast the arctic as well as the Greenland ice are disappearing

tbh we don't know enough about the detail of how various parts of the world will react to higher temps, higher sea level, different wind and rain distributions etc.

that's why many people, even if they acknowledge that global warming is real and maybe even past the tipping point, sit and wait to see what exactly will happen to them, and hope they will be lucky

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:55 am

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I think there's just too many people. People are trying make changes, such as the Paris agreement, but I feel there's so many of us now that it's too late.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:29 am

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There's only a bit of support for a "tipping point" in the models. That being the case, there probably no real "too late," and every step we take to mitigate man-made greenhouse warming will reduce disruption of world ecosystems with great potential to reducing suffering for future generations of people and save many species in the following decades.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:46 am
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Peter Wadham's contention was that there's already at least several degrees of warming still in the pipeline (based on the current CO2 levels) and that when the methane reserves of Siberia (both offshore and on land) really start entering the atmosphere in a big way, then it will be too late for us to do anything about it

if he's correct, then we would have passed a tipping point where things only get worse even if we stopped emitting any new CO2

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:44 pm

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So what happens then? Do people just have to adapt? Move to higher ground? I've read about the Little Ice Age, a period of around 500 years where global temperatures dropped and it wreaked all sorts of havoc. And that was without humans making it worse. So I worry about what's ahead and feel powerless. I want the world to still be around for future generations.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:16 pm
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The first step in adapting to climate change is taking steps not to make the problem worse. The next step is dependent on your local situation and circumstances. If you live in a coastal region, you move inland. If you live near drought, you explore desalination. If THIS, then THAT, ad infinitum...

What steps we take to adapt depends entirely on where we are and what we're facing... there's no one single "right way".. but all steps to adapt no matter what they entail start with us working hard not to not make things worse.

Defeatism is self perpetuating. Don't do it. :)

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:08 pm

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I'm defeatist about that too. I still hear people say things like "haha it's below freezing this winter, so much for global warming, liberals. hur dur dur". Ugh, no. Global warming doesn't mean there won't still be cold weather and snow. Climate's not weather. :x


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:08 pm
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And if we continue correcting them and educating them and all of the people around them then their position becomes marginalized. We make statements like those laughable.

Defeatism is lazy and nothing to be proud of. Don't like what you're seeing? Do something about it. Stand up. Take part. Change it.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:50 pm

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I do try. I've been involved in planting new forests and have encouraged others to do the same. It's easy and even enjoyable. I explain that it also helps counter Co2 emissions. At least that's what I understand.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:37 pm
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Indeed, it sure does!

"The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is today."

“Trees are the best monuments that a man can erect to his own memory. They speak his praises without flattery, and they are blessings to children yet unborn.”

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:30 pm

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Well according to one article I've read, the world has just 50 years left. 50. That's it. Not sure anything I can do will help. I'll just try to make the best of the time we have left.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:26 pm

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LilSaber wrote:
....the world has just 50 years left. 50.


whatever that means....

--
End of the world, certainly not. A less interesting and biologically less diverse planet during and after a global extinction event--it appears we're heading that way due to our own stupidity.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:52 pm

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The planet will still be around but you know what I meant. People are just resigned to it I guess.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:56 pm
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Michael Crichton may have been a denier when it came to global warming, but the following sentiment from his first Jurassic Park book is spot on :

“Let's be clear. The planet is not in jeopardy. We are in jeopardy. We haven't got the power to destroy the planet - or to save it. But we might have the power to save ourselves.”

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:53 pm

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But that's not happening. Is there any reason to be hopeful? Anything at all? I want to think there is but I'm not seeing it.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:40 am

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I read the 50 years stat in an article I found that I hoped would help with my severe anxiety. I didn't bother finishing. I felt much worse. I'm so scared now it's hard to function. Wish I didn't know what I know.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:09 pm
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i don't know what to suggest : on the one hand i'd suggest to fear only real and present danger, but on the other hand, this type of blinkered attitude is what got us in this mess in the first place

from a very egocentric point of view i tend to think that it will last my time (if i'm lucky) and who knows we'll be lucky, even if we don't deserve it

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:28 pm

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But is anyone even trying to fix things?


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:55 pm

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LilSaber wrote:
But is anyone even trying to fix things?


Of course. First off is the scientific community which has been sending clear unambiguous warning signs for the past four decades with increasingly broad message that extends to all the natural sciences.

National and International efforts to balance economic concerns with reductions of greenhouse emissions through agreements such as cap and trade policies, energy efficiency goals for many commodities and outright restrictions on new fossil fuel extractions.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:58 pm
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when we look at how the CO2 levels increase in the atmosphere, then "business as usual" is what we see, so the conclusion has to be that nothing of significance is being done so far

what we need is a process that consumes CO2 without costing the earth (in both senses)

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:08 pm

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
LilSaber wrote:
But is anyone even trying to fix things?


Of course. First off is the scientific community which has been sending clear unambiguous warning signs for the past four decades with increasingly broad message that extends to all the natural sciences.

National and International efforts to balance economic concerns with reductions of greenhouse emissions through agreements such as cap and trade policies, energy efficiency goals for many commodities and outright restrictions on new fossil fuel extractions.

Why's nothing getting better then? Simply too many people alive now?


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:12 pm

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marnixR wrote:
when we look at how the CO2 levels increase in the atmosphere, then "business as usual" is what we see, so the conclusion has to be that nothing of significance is being done so far

what we need is a process that consumes CO2 without costing the earth (in both senses)


While I'd agree it hasn't been nearly enough yet, it absolutely has been significant--for example, Europe and the US have decreasing CO2 emissions over the past 2 decades and China starting to rapidly developing alternative energy--we'd be in a much deeper pickle with probably >450 ppm CO2 (we just passed 400 ppm), if the US and Europe hadn't started shifting towards a lower carbon footprint economies.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:00 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
for example, Europe and the US have decreasing CO2 emissions over the past 2 decades ....


could that be because the US and Europe have exported their polluting industries to China and India ?
the UK has managed to reduce its carbon footprint mainly by seeing half of its steel industry being closed, while China now has a steel production surplus larger than the whole of the European steel making capacity

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:49 pm

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Yes, some of it is due to exported emissions for sure.


But there's also been very large efficiency changes in nearly every sector of the economy as well. Take transportation, an average car in mid '70 got about 15mpg, where today it's over 25mpg. Trucks have had a similarly large increase, but also coupled to average loads running from 30% full load to nearly 90% due to improved inventory managements. In that same period, electrical production (in the US) has gone from more than half coal to about a 3rd, while much more efficient (for CO2/KW) has nearly doubled from about 20% to nearly 40%. House heating efficiencies have likewise improved, for example, Northern cold homes moving from oil furnaces, inefficient wood stoves, and resistance electrical to gas and heat pumps.

There are large improvements in nearly every area-- that story needs to be told and to continue.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:12 pm
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I can't wait for electrical and/or hydrogen cars to become mainstream
especially in congested town centres, pollution would be reduced at the drop of a hat

also a bit surprised that electrification of the railways isn't given a higher priority

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 5:49 pm
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There are, of course, thousands (millions?) of people trying to help and address the situation. It's a massive problem so hard to see progress or move quickly (it's not like making toast or squeezing juice, after all), but hard work is being done everyday by dedicated people.

The core challenge is there are still vested interests fighting against that progress. There are oil and gas companies looking out for their own profits. There are entire countries (like Russia) who recognize they'll gain more global power if warming continues.

The worst part, though, is that the US Congress itself is the worlds largest and most powerful climate change denying organization.

That causes concern, but should not result in defeat. Giving up makes you part of the problem. Don't do that. Be part of the solution.

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anticorncob28
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:56 am
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iNow wrote:
The worst part, though, is that the US Congress itself is the worlds largest and most powerful climate change denying organization.

How then can climate change deniers claim that man-made global warming is a government lie when half the government doesn't believe in it?

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:19 am
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surely you realise that climate change deniers said global warming was a government lie when referring to Obama's government
under Trump's government they won't have any reason to say so (unless Trump changes his mind, which wouldn't be the first time)

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:15 pm
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anticorncob28 wrote:
How then can climate change deniers claim that man-made global warming is a government lie when half the government doesn't believe in it?

Your first mistake is assuming logic is involved...

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:37 am

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If only green energy had the influence over politicians that big oil does. Then we'd really start to see progress. I feel like all of this could be fixed, but not while the rich have politicians in their pockets. And I don't see that changing any time soon.
But thanks for sharing some of the good news. I'm breathing slightly easier now.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:04 am
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the trouble is that the economics of going green are not overwhelming - if they were, someone would make money out of it and in the process ruin the coal and oil industry

a bit like digital photography ruined Kodak, or Amazon ruined many book sellers

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:54 pm

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Are electric cars even that helpful? No, they don't burn gas but they use electricity which is made by burning coal, if I'm not mistaken.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:12 am
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Depends on where you live. Many states are transforming their electrical offerings to allow renewables to predominate. Iowa, Texas, and a number of others, for example, get tons of energy from wind. One can also install solar on their home to power their car. Coal is not required.

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6021 ... -the-grid/
Quote:
The Lone Star state is by far the largest state for wind power, with nearly 18,000 megawatts of wind generation capacity already built and another 5,500 megawatts—nearly equal to California’s total installed capacity—planned.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:05 am

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That's strange. I'm a native Texan and it's a very backwards place so I'm surprised it's leading in something positive.


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:36 am
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Well, to my son at a tender age I told him plainly: he will pay for what my generation is doing to the Earth.


I am a defeatist about this. Because though I'm "an environmentalist" I think environmentalists as a group (and I know some career politician/environmentalists) I think our assessment is misguided by human values, and our cures are misguided by human values. For one example what a poster above said about planting trees. I like trees, of course my ancestors used to swing on trees in lush green forests. You can sell trees to voters and impassioned politicians. But objectively (e.g. viewing the Earth from orbit, as sunlight) I'm not so sure that forcing the Earth to be as green as possible, is helping. Actually I think the climate could really use some dustbowls and forest fires right now. Barren landscapes and air pollution. And I believe we'll fight that to the bitter end, planting and irrigating "at war" with natural forces that would correct global temperature. I'm a defeatist because I know we'll never blame the innocent farmer and go hungry so we can banish him from the landscape. We'll do what feels right & natural to our particular species.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 7:48 am
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in the meantime, newspapers like the Mail continue to claim that the global warming thing is a stitch-up :

Exposed: How world leaders were duped into investing billions over manipulated global warming data

the mind boggles ! as if the disappearing arctic ice not warning enough that we're moving to an irretrievably warmer planet - just because there's been some adjustment that they don't understand the reason for, and because there's some political disagreement internally, it must therefore must be dodgy :evil:

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:56 am

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Ah, the good old Daily Fail... It should be prosecuted for false advertising for calling itself a newspaper... It should be in the comics section...

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:42 pm
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oh, and here's the informed counter argument :

The House Science Committee claims scientists faked climate change data—here's what you should know

I don't hear Trump calling "fake news !" ?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:26 pm
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It's only fake news if he disagrees with it or if it makes him look bad, duh

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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Climate change scares me  |  Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:09 am
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We're all on side here. Now the question I have for each: Do you expect we'll win this?

I for one believe we'll fail miserably... BUT we must try our best anyway.


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