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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 3:07 pm

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In some ironic twist, I think the quote summarizes LilSaber's despondency. People forget her name (Rosalind Franklin) in part because two male scientists (Crick & Watson) took all the credit.


But that was in the 1950s (and she died soon after so didn't make a fuss)... They wouldn't get away with it now...

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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:07 pm
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I've just read an article in a Spanish newspaper which describes two disadvantages women have in progressing in science as a career. This one in Science http://science.sciencemag.org/content/355/6323/389about gender stereotypes and this one in Nature http://www.nature.com/news/journals-invite-too-few-women-to-referee-1.21337 about the failure to appoint female referees.

(I can't work out how to make these references)


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Zinjanthropos
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:15 pm
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PhDemon wrote:
Quote:
In some ironic twist, I think the quote summarizes LilSaber's despondency. People forget her name (Rosalind Franklin) in part because two male scientists (Crick & Watson) took all the credit.


But that was in the 1950s (and she died soon after so didn't make a fuss)... They wouldn't get away with it now...


Somebody needs to assure the melancholy LilSaber that this is the case. Inside I'm thinking it still happens but victims not limited to the female gender.

Do companies still have some type of Innovator's Circle or has that trend faded away? Don't hear of it much, with all the contract workers nowadays I guess anything beneficial that you think of is company intellectual property. When I first started out in the real world the people I worked for would pay you for a good idea (reducing costs, safety, etc.) I've heard that company cancelled the program. I cashed in twice in my short stint there. Probably get away not paying for innovations when using contractors but union shops might think differently.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:52 pm
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PhDemon wrote:
Quote:
In some ironic twist, I think the quote summarizes LilSaber's despondency. People forget her name (Rosalind Franklin) in part because two male scientists (Crick & Watson) took all the credit.


But that was in the 1950s (and she died soon after so didn't make a fuss)... They wouldn't get away with it now...


Wilkins also published together with Rosalind and Watson and Crick and no one remembers him either. Though may be his contribution was not good enough. I can not remember.


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Zinjanthropos
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:59 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
PhDemon wrote:
Quote:
In some ironic twist, I think the quote summarizes LilSaber's despondency. People forget her name (Rosalind Franklin) in part because two male scientists (Crick & Watson) took all the credit.


But that was in the 1950s (and she died soon after so didn't make a fuss)... They wouldn't get away with it now...


Wilkins also published together with Rosalind and Watson and Crick and no one remembers him either. Though may be his contribution was not good enough. I can not remember.


Wasn't Wilkins the guy who handed over one of Franklin's photos to C&W without her knowledge, keying the discovery? Not much of a contribution if that's all he did.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:19 pm
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A long time ago I heard that Crick stole Wilkins idea of the double helix and improved it because Wilkins's was wrong.. or something like that... :lol: :lol: :lol:


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:53 pm

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IIRC Wilkins did a lot of the ground work behind the X-ray diffraction studies that Franklin finished off... He also shared the Nobel Prize with Watson and Crick so was not exactly unrecognised for the work. As for the stealing ideas, that never happened. Wilkins showed Jim Watson one of Franklin's X-ray diffraction patterns (she had passed it on to Wilkins as she was leaving the department) and this high quality image helped them work out the structure.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:18 pm
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There you go.. That's the story of Wilkins...


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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:13 pm
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But none of that suggests that women are less able at science or less intelligent does it?

Just that the media and the establishment are sexist?

OB


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:11 pm

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I'm looking into other areas for my major. Something easy like psychology. My school has a good program for it.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:26 pm
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Who says Psychology is easier? All universitary careers are difficult, specially if you don't like what you're studying....


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 8:18 pm

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Easy, not hard. I'll plan on declaring a major this year.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:09 am

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M_Gabriela wrote:
Who says Psychology is easier? All universitary careers are difficult, specially if you don't like what you're studying....


They're called soft sciences for a reason.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:48 pm
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That reason tends to relate to the fact that humans aren't billiard balls and variability is quite high so replication of results and simple "if A then B" constructions are significantly more challenging.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:01 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
Who says Psychology is easier? All universitary careers are difficult, specially if you don't like what you're studying....


They're called soft sciences for a reason.


Ok... good luck. I hope you don't get bored...


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:10 am

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I will head home after this quarter and think things over with my parents. I need time to think of an alternative. I won't get bored.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:39 am
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There are only two factors that matter. Will you enjoy it? Can you earn a living / maximize your chance at landing a job by studying it? Whether you stand or sit when you pee or what immature people around you might think don't matter at all.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:16 am

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Can I still post here or is it best I stop?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:15 am
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I'm very confused by your post. Of course you can still post here. Can you help me understand why you think you're no longer welcome? You very much are welcome.

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 1:52 am

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Cause I'm full of nonsense.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:16 am
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Is it painful?



;)

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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:31 am

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No, but I don't think scientifically.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:01 pm

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One beer wrote:
But none of that suggests that women are less able at science or less intelligent does it?

Just that the media and the establishment are sexist?

OB


I don't know. I think we are less able. In general, there are exceptions. The fact that nothing's improved and the news is almost all bad makes it easy to lose heart. When every article I could find on the subject was about our failures then I'm not sure sexism is the main cause. I suggested that earlier and got attacked for it. :cry:


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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 5:13 pm

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LilSaber wrote:
One beer wrote:
But none of that suggests that women are less able at science or less intelligent does it?

Just that the media and the establishment are sexist?

OB


I don't know. I think we are less able. In general, there are exceptions. The fact that nothing's improved and the news is almost all bad makes it easy to lose heart. When every article I could find on the subject was about our failures then I'm not sure sexism is the main cause. I suggested that earlier and got attacked for it. :cry:

Of course some people can be physically and mentally better equipped than others. Also different people can be advantaged or disadvantaged by virtue of the social group they come from.

But to say a person is better or worse than another has to take into account other (and far more important) considerations: how does a person deal with the hand they have been dealt and are they able to include others in the good fortune or achievements they encounter as an example?

There are surely many other qualities ,too many to list perhaps .

This applies equally to men and women and I doubt there are many who would claim that women ,men or any other distinction are more likely to "score higher" than any other random grouping when considered in this light.

Some of us are lucky and some are not but it is the way we deal with the hand we are dealt that might allow us to say or feel that we have performed better ,or worse than any other-up to that particular point in time.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:09 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
I don't know. I think we are less able. In general, there are exceptions. The fact that nothing's improved and the news is almost all bad makes it easy to lose heart. When every article I could find on the subject was about our failures then I'm not sure sexism is the main cause. I suggested that earlier and got attacked for it. :cry:


As a woman I feel a little offended...
Luckily you are still too young. You need more experience... I hope you change your mind. Doing therapy also helps


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:23 pm

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I seek therapy for my depression.


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Dywyddyr
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:54 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
Who says Psychology is easier? All universitary careers are difficult, specially if you don't like what you're studying....


They're called soft sciences for a reason.

They're called "soft" because they lack scientific rigour and "rigid" definition - and for that same reason the the so-called hard sciences are, in fact, "easier" than the soft ones.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:31 pm

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M_Gabriela wrote:
LilSaber wrote:
I don't know. I think we are less able. In general, there are exceptions. The fact that nothing's improved and the news is almost all bad makes it easy to lose heart. When every article I could find on the subject was about our failures then I'm not sure sexism is the main cause. I suggested that earlier and got attacked for it. :cry:


As a woman I feel a little offended...
Luckily you are still too young. You need more experience... I hope you change your mind. Doing therapy also helps

I said there are exceptions. Just not that many.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:00 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
LilSaber wrote:
I don't know. I think we are less able. In general, there are exceptions. The fact that nothing's improved and the news is almost all bad makes it easy to lose heart. When every article I could find on the subject was about our failures then I'm not sure sexism is the main cause. I suggested that earlier and got attacked for it. :cry:


As a woman I feel a little offended...
Luckily you are still too young. You need more experience... I hope you change your mind. Doing therapy also helps

I said there are exceptions. Just not that many.


This just.... annoys me..


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:02 pm

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Sorry. Not my fault. :(


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:08 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
Sorry. Not my fault. :(

Well it is, but I'll just stop reading this.


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:18 pm

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Sorry, seems I can't say anything right. I'll also say no more. :cry:


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:24 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
Sorry, seems I can't say anything right. I'll also say no more. :cry:

Ok


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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:16 pm
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Hi LilSaber,

Have you got 8 mins to watch this video. The young lady is bright, intelligent, and energised. She is a software designer, and I wonder if you think she is a good role model for you?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E3gS9tjACwU

OB


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:55 pm

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No thank you.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:08 am
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You seem pretty down on yourself, lilsaber. Try to remember that kicking yourself when you're down doesn't help you stand back up any faster.

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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:26 am
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What about this lady. Does she inspire you Lil?



OB


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:23 pm

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No. Please just drop it. It's a dead topic.


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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:29 pm
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Well that seems rather rude - I was trying to help and inspire you.

Perhaps you need to work on your communication skills - especially if you want to be a psychologist?

Good luck.

OB


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LilSaber
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:46 pm

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I don't want to be and I've said a few times as nicely as I know how to that I'm finished talking about this. Please respect that.


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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:56 am
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No, I'm sorry, but you haven't told us that you want no further help or advice.

I have just re-read the entire thread again, and the closest you came was to post that you would say no more.

Had you politely thanked posters for their help and comments, and clearly said that you did not want any more suggestions, we would have respected that.

Your general style is slightly aggressive and abupt, but perhaps you don't realise this, which is why I said that you might need to work on your communication skills*. Perhaps you come across as aggressive to your fellow students, friends and colleagues, and this could be why they act dismissively towards you?

The things you say men have said about women causing companys to fail etc, are so outrageous and ridiculous that perhaps your male colleagues are not being serious but enjoy winding you up and seeing how cross you get?

I will offer nothing further.

OB



*And your anger management.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 11:08 am
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I have to disagree with you One Beer, She was clear. She wanted to drop the topic- You just continued. She has been polite in answering all the comments and her attitude was very clear. She didn't want to continue.

It's very possible she's in sexist environment that makes her think that way. It's her decision if she wants to think the way she does. She's is still very young. Only time will tell.


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One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:51 am
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Hi M_Gabriela,

She says 'no thank you' after the first clip I posted, but this was very ambiguous - what did she mean, 'no that is mot a good role model' or 'no I am not interested in that field', or 'no, I don't want any more suggestions and advice thank you', or did she mean something else?

Her communication is not clear, and then I get it in the neck from her when I fail to understand her very vague comment.

OB


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:47 pm
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LilSaber wrote:
No. Please just drop it. It's a dead topic.


There it is.


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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:28 pm

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M_Gabriela wrote:
LilSaber wrote:
No. Please just drop it. It's a dead topic.


There it is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218

"It's just resting."


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Despondent science-loving girl.  |  Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:55 pm
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Thanks all for your participation and desire to help fellow members. This thread has outlived its usefulness IMO and the OP has asked to no longer discuss, so I'm locking it. Hopefully our OP will create new threads in the future and continue to participate in various discussions with our kind members here.

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