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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:29 pm

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ASD = Autism spectrum disorder
What's the percentage of non ASD people who are atheists?
What's the percentage of ASD people who are atheists?
I am looking for a number.

I am not specific now, not asking questions like "what age?", "what country?", "what gender?", etc.
This is because I can't even find any research papers with a figure.
May be if a find a research paper, I would start asking those questions.

Anyone got a research paper?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:37 pm
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I doubt you'll find statistics referencing religious preferences among the ASD community. Best site with demographics and related data about which I'm aware is this one: https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/data.html

There, of course, may be others out there about which I'm unaware.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:58 pm
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i assume you mean to say autistic children who are born to atheists versus non-atheists
i think it may be pretty hard to state for sure what religion, if any, an autistic person adheres to

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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 2:16 pm

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marnixR wrote:
i assume you mean to say autistic children who are born to atheists versus non-atheists
i think it may be pretty hard to state for sure what religion, if any, an autistic person adheres to


Oh, man, you made me think hard.

I guess my two questions would be roughly as follows.
For children brought up with religion: Statistically speaking, how much more likely is one with ASD to identify as an atheist when growing up, vs one without ASD?
For children brought up with no religion: Statistically speaking, how much more likely is one without ASD to identify as a theist when growing up, vs one with ASD?

:D


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:02 pm
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I'm not sure the data set which would allow us to answer those questions even exists... Not today, at least.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 5:04 pm
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I'd be inclined to think that this is the type of information that should be directed at the relevant authorities using a freedom of information request

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:07 pm

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I seriously doubt there's be any relationship except amongst strong fundamentalists who don't get their children properly diagnosed and treated.

ASD usually expresses itself in toddlers--one of the key challenges being that many children don't get expert eyes on them until critical development periods and opportunities to treat are passed (in WA state social care workers try to canvas daycare, churches, markets and playgrounds trying to find ASD long before they enter school)---all well BEFORE a people have anything resembling religious thought.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 9:30 pm
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still, it's an interesting topic : is autism in any way related to whether their parents are religious or not ?
my guess is, since autism appears to be on the rise both in religious US and mostly secular north-western Europe, that it has nothing to do whatsoever with religion

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2017 10:48 pm
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Autism is a way of looking at the world, and the view that we take is honest. Is there honest evidence in nature for the existence of a deity?

My guess would be that autistic individuals raised and educated in an agnostic setting would be significantly more likely to be atheist than theist.

Declared interest: I almost certainly have Aspergers.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:15 am

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marnixR, my thinking as well. There's also considerable debate whether there's an actual rise at all, or just better diagnosis alongside better understanding and definitions.


Rory, there is no "honest evidence in nature for a deity:

But aside from thsy, can you expand your hypothesis and reasoning. Why should it matter anymore than the general trend people raised in secular settings (better word than agnostic), tend to self-report themselves more atheistic?


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 2:26 am
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I agree with your conclusion, I don't see clear evidence in nature for the existence of a deity.

My reasoning is that autists tend to view things honestly, frankly, literally - however you prefer to express it; and to give their genuine opinion, even when it is not in their interest to do so.

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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 8:58 am

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marnixR wrote:
still, it's an interesting topic : is autism in any way related to whether their parents are religious or not ?
my guess is, since autism appears to be on the rise both in religious US and mostly secular north-western Europe, that it has nothing to do whatsoever with religion


I too, think its purely genetic, and nothing to do with religion.

By googling, you can easily find multiple articles, that people with ASD are more likely to stay an atheist, or turn into one.
I asked this question, because I want to know whether it's "more likely", or "the majority".
I also want to know the percentage of ASD adults who are atheists, and the percentage of non-ASD adults who are athesists.

I want to know the percentage, based on data.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:08 am
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This blog post suggests that Theory of Mind is related to autists' "inability to have a personal relationship with God":

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/psyched/201205/does-autism-lead-atheism

You know, because neurotypicals do so well at intuitively knowing one another's emotional states and exactly how to respond. Divorce rate 40-60% in the West.

People talk about us, write about us, in the most dehumanising way. How much Theory of Mind does it take to realise that we don't want to be objectified and ostracised?

A lot of people also assume that we do not feel, or cannot empathise, which is total BS. We do feel and can empathise, but don't always know how to improve relations, what would be the best thing to say in any given situation.

Well, I'd rather accept that I cannot read somebody's mind and invest the time in talking deeply than to make real time assumptions and be one of the 50% who cannot make their marriage work.

I'd rather accept that nobody cares than to invent an imaginary friend in the sky who "loves" me.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 6:54 pm

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Roamer wrote:
By googling, you can easily find multiple articles, that people with ASD are more likely to stay an atheist, or turn into one.

Yet seemingly only really rigorously examined by a single study of high functioning that bothered to self-report and not confirmed in repeated studies. And even that study states: "As shown in Figure 1, individuals with HFA were less likely to belong to an organized religion than their NT counterparts and were more likely to create their own religious belief system." Thus suggesting the much of the difference seems to be they make up their own "god."


It's evidence but I'm not sure it qualifies as strong evidence:
--

The whole "relationship with god" admittedly confounds me. The couple of close friends who use that term sound very much like children with imaginary friends--and my guess is it's of similar brain function. Are imaginary friends less common in ASD people? Perhaps a better question, do they play less with dolls as children, particularly during those developmental stages when children form mental models of other's emotions so helpful for relationships from love to deceit etc? (I suspect the answer is yes)

It's certainly an interesting topic in its own right.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:31 pm
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Roamer wrote:
By googling, you can easily find multiple articles, that people with ASD are more likely to stay an atheist, or turn into one.


the trouble with googling is that you can just about find anything on the internet if you put your mind to it
do you have any examples of these assertions + what sources are being used to back up the assertions ?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:59 pm
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marnixR wrote:
the trouble with googling is that you can just about find anything on the internet if you put your mind to it

Indeed. I believe your quote comes from Abe Lincoln. That's what I read on the internet, anyway.


Image

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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:08 pm

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Ok, I will take a step back.
I will admit that the online articles that "people with ASD are more likely to turn into/ remain atheists" doesn't count as good evidence.

Would anyone know where I might find proper research papers of the percentages?


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 10:17 pm
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@Lynx

So what if we didn't play with dolls (etc) as children?

Just look at the success rate of neurotypicals

Why would we want to emulate their catastrophes?

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#1 in 2 #reality #no thanks

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:41 am

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Roamer wrote:
Would anyone know where I might find proper research papers of the percentages?


The survey research paper embedded by Rory's link might be the only data that does that.
http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/procee ... er0782.pdf

Quote:
So what if we didn't play with dolls (etc) as children?

Because for most children, such role play (it can be any anthologized object...GI Joe, a stuffed animal, a Bette fish) is a key component how people learn to explore and develop a Theory of Minds of others. Lack of such play and development of theory of minds is one of the early and key clues that the child is ASD and might need early intervention.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:23 am
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Why would we need "intervention"?

Excepting severe non-verbal autism, in which the goal would be to promote verbal communication, ASD does not require intervention.

It's not a disease, it's not a disability.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:16 pm
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Rory wrote:
It's not a disease, it's not a disability.

Your claim above does not appear to enjoy much consensus:

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/facts.html
Quote:
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is a developmental disability that can cause significant social, communication and behavioral challenges.

https://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/ ... ndex.shtml
Quote:
Autism spectrum disorder (ASD) is the name for a group of developmental disorders. ASD includes a wide range, “a spectrum,” of symptoms, skills, and levels of disability.

https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/autism/addm.html
Quote:
The Autism and Developmental Disabilities Monitoring (ADDM) Network is a group of programs funded by CDC to estimate the number of children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and other developmental disabilities living in different areas of the United States. (...) Among children identified with ASD who had IQ scores available, about a third also had intellectual disability.

Emphasis mine

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:37 pm
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Yes, I'm well aware that other people (medical professionals) regard it as such.

I'm just saying, I live it, and if somebody offered to "cure" me tomorrow, I would say, "no thank you". Well, actually, I would probably say F off, but we won't dwell on that :)


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 5:56 pm
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Right, then.

Rory wrote:
I know this disagrees with what professionals say, but in my opinion It's not a disease, IMO it's not a disability.

There, FTFY

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:46 pm
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:D Thanks, iNow

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 6:57 pm
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Sorry for derailing your thread, Roamer. I can find a few research papers on the topic, they all seem to suggest a positive correlation between autism (specifically, lack of mentalising) and atheism. But the data sources are not robust - they survey 60 people or so and regard that as representative.

Government websites most likely harbour the information you desire.

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Roamer
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:25 am

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
The survey research paper embedded by Rory's link might be the only data that does that.
http://csjarchive.cogsci.rpi.edu/procee ... er0782.pdf


Oh, nice that I've got some numbers!

This is exactly (quoted) what I recieved from a creationist during a private discussion: "I use common sense judgement. I may grant that the picture unearthed may have the theoretical possibility of being self evolved, by chance and what not, I would use the daily common sense to assume someone has drawn it. When there is a murder I assume there is a murderer".

I've asked this question because I've read this article several months back:
http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/ ... agnostics/

Quote:
In the last decades, evolutionary psychologists have proposed that a propensity to believe in a supernatural power derives from something very fundamental: humans’ highly developed mentalizing abilities, which are part of our evolutionary heritage and are believed to have evolved to help us live in complex social groups. Mentalizing abilities include our frequent need to imagine what others’ are thinking, and our tendency to anthropomorphize. We may jump to conclusions such as believing that damage to our property was purposefully caused by that neighbor we’ve been arguing with, rather than thinking it was caused by some natural event or accident. ... The inference is that if autistic individuals are less likely to mentalize and anthropomorphize, they may be less likely to believe in God.


Is it reasonable to conclude that confirmation bias is the only reason why the watchmaker's fallacy is contantly brought up again and again?
I mean, the only group of people with poor mentalizing abilities we are considering are ASD people.
What if there is another group of people with poor mentalizing abilities, but are commonly religious, and likes to use similar analogies to the watchmaker's fallacy?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:38 pm
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Roamer wrote:
I've asked this question because I've read this article several months back:
http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/ ... agnostics/

Quote:
In the last decades, evolutionary psychologists have proposed that a propensity to believe in a supernatural power derives from something very fundamental: humans’ highly developed mentalizing abilities, which are part of our evolutionary heritage and are believed to have evolved to help us live in complex social groups. Mentalizing abilities include our frequent need to imagine what others’ are thinking, and our tendency to anthropomorphize. We may jump to conclusions such as believing that damage to our property was purposefully caused by that neighbor we’ve been arguing with, rather than thinking it was caused by some natural event or accident. ... The inference is that if autistic individuals are less likely to mentalize and anthropomorphize, they may be less likely to believe in God.


Is it reasonable to conclude that confirmation bias is the only reason why the watchmaker's fallacy is contantly brought up again and again?

In my opinion, no. That certainly occurs, but there is more to it than that. There is also a lack of critical thinking and local culture (peer pressures).

More broadly, our minds have evolved certain predispositions and we often take shortcuts. Sometimes, those lead us astray.

You may enjoy this talk about concepts similar to those expressed in your quote above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg&e


Quote:
What if there is another group of people with poor mentalizing abilities, but are commonly religious, and likes to use similar analogies to the watchmaker's fallacy?

We call them republicans

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:42 pm
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MODNOTE: Several posts have been split into their own thread here: post26950.html#p26950

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Dywyddyr
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:48 pm
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Roamer wrote:
Ok, I will take a step back.
I will admit that the online articles that "people with ASD are more likely to turn into/ remain atheists" doesn't count as good evidence.

Would anyone know where I might find proper research papers of the percentages?

Start here: https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q= ... MQgQMIGjAA


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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:40 am
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Rory wrote:
Why would we need "intervention"?

Excepting severe non-verbal autism, in which the goal would be to promote verbal communication, ASD does not require intervention.

It's not a disease, it's not a disability.


Exactly. The professional opinion that it is a disability is driven by some narrow-minded thinking that people should behave in a particular way. People on the autism spectrum may well have difficulties which neurotypical people do not have, such as socialising in a manner specified by neutotypical people. There is often a huge compensation in the ability to focus on something for far longer than neurotypical people can - that is the opposite of a dysability (is there a word for that?). My own experience is that the most logical and cynical people I know are on that spectrum (obviously I am too) and it would not surprise me in the least that there is some kind of correlation with atheism.

Incidentally, the American habit of combining Asperger's with autism has contributed to this view that it involves a dysability. You are allowed to treat dysabilities with drugs, so hey - why not combine Asperger's with severe autism, call them all a dysability and sell more drugs? Obviously a good idea.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:36 pm

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DrKrettin wrote:
Rory wrote:
Why would we need "intervention"?

Excepting severe non-verbal autism, in which the goal would be to promote verbal communication, ASD does not require intervention.

It's not a disease, it's not a disability.


Exactly. The professional opinion that it is a disability is driven by some narrow-minded thinking that people should behave in a particular way.


No. While there are high functioning ASD which do ok, many others have great difficulties interacting with people which in turn inhibits them on a whole range of social and learning skills often crippling enough that they'll struggle to function in society--such live with others, learn in group settings, hold a job, understand a police officer's command, or work through depression with others to avoid suicide etc. It is a disability that often with early intervention can improve function.


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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:28 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
DrKrettin wrote:
Rory wrote:
Why would we need "intervention"?

Excepting severe non-verbal autism, in which the goal would be to promote verbal communication, ASD does not require intervention.

It's not a disease, it's not a disability.


Exactly. The professional opinion that it is a disability is driven by some narrow-minded thinking that people should behave in a particular way.


No. While there are high functioning ASD which do ok, many others have great difficulties interacting with people which in turn inhibits them on a whole range of social and learning skills often crippling enough that they'll struggle to function in society--such live with others, learn in group settings, hold a job, understand a police officer's command, or work through depression with others to avoid suicide etc. It is a disability that often with early intervention can improve function.


No. It is totally ridiculous to classify all autism as a disability, given that the USA declares Aspergers to be part of that spectrum. You are focusing on the extreme end of the spectrum where people are unable to function properly. It is very nice of you to say the high functioning ASD do OK - in fact they often do far more than OK. Of course, my stance does not agree with the American one, but then I am not part of the drugs industry who want to classify absolutely everything as a disability so that it can be treated with drugs.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:35 pm

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DrKrettin wrote:
No. It is totally ridiculous to classify all autism as a disability, given that the USA declares Aspergers to be part of that spectrum.

Generally they aren't even defined as a condition unless they are a disability.


Quote:
You are focusing on the extreme end of the spectrum where people are unable to function properly.
How so? Nearly half end up with an IQ under 70, that's quite a disability. The high performing ASD almost always underperform in other measures such as academic success, higher suicide rates etc. This is why early intervention is so important--because diagnosis by normal school entry age misses key developmental steps where intervention is most effective.

Quote:
my stance does not agree with the American one, but then I am not part of the drugs industry who want to classify absolutely everything as a disability so that it can be treated with drugs.

Also untrue, in fact there's isn't an approved drug for it... and almost all interventions aren't' based in pharma, but around social learning, communication, speech skills etc.


Here's a meta study that lays out the research and fairly current. http://daddcec.org/portals/0/cec/autism ... ioning.pdf


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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:26 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
DrKrettin wrote:
No. It is totally ridiculous to classify all autism as a disability, given that the USA declares Aspergers to be part of that spectrum.

Generally they aren't even defined as a condition unless they are a disability.


We have different criteria for defining Asperberg's. If you define it like that, that's fine. But knowing the behaviour patterns, it is quite easy to identify adults as high performing ASD who do not behave in a manner which sees the condition as a disability.


Lynx_Fox wrote:
Quote:
You are focusing on the extreme end of the spectrum where people are unable to function properly.
How so? Nearly half end up with an IQ under 70, that's quite a disability. The high performing ASD almost always underperform in other measures such as academic success, higher suicide rates etc.


Again, this is one end of a spectrum which has ill-defined limits. If you quantify that half have an IQ under 70, this must mean that the sample measured has been clearly identified as having ASD. This suggests that the sample is a group of children which have been identified as needing attention, so obviously the extreme cases are predominate. I agree that an IQ of 70 is a disability. I can't prove this, but there must be many children who display no signs of high-performing ASD to an outside observer other than their parents, and the parents do not recognise the particular traits but just label them as awkward of difficult because they don't quite fit in. These children would never be considered in a survey. (I have a granddaughter in this category, not that I want proof by example. I could write an essay on her particular traits, but to the outside world, she is normal.)

As for academic success, any exposure to the academic staff in a university (well, the ones I know of) makes it blindingly obvious that a high number of those in academia are somewhere on the Asperger's spectrum, so again we are using different criteria for high performing ASD.

I don't think we disagree, rather we have different criteria for definitions.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:16 am

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ASD is pretty well defined, (at least for a social science). My own experience is mostly with middle school students as a volunteer special education assistant. The children were routinely tested, usually before preschool, but occasionally later after a teacher identified a behavioural or acedemic problem. Typically in WA state, (each US state has different systems) IQ is tested first followed by testing for other disabilities if the child is underperforming for academics as compared to their IQ. (e.g. a child with 90IQ should be doing about average with a minor bit of help--not failing).

Before we go further, since you've been critical of American Psychological Association (APA) (and made several incorrect statements about drug use etc) what is your definition of ASD? What organization developed it; who adopts it etc.


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DrKrettin
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:09 am
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
ASD is pretty well defined, (at least for a social science). My own experience is mostly with middle school students as a volunteer special education assistant. The children were routinely tested, usually before preschool, but occasionally later after a teacher identified a behavioural or acedemic problem. Typically in WA state, (each US state has different systems) IQ is tested first followed by testing for other disabilities if the child is underperforming for academics as compared to their IQ. (e.g. a child with 90IQ should be doing about average with a minor bit of help--not failing).

Before we go further, since you've been critical of American Psychological Association (APA) (and made several incorrect statements about drug use etc) what is your definition of ASD? What organization developed it; who adopts it etc.


It does sound to me that your experience has exposed you to one end of a broad spectrum, where by definition the children with ASD are inevitably going to have a low IQ on average. If we were talking of autism as it used to be defined, I would have no issue with it. But the APA has included Aspergers in this spectrum, a move which has not received acceptance outside the USA (I'm not sure to what extent). I only made one statement about drugs, and it was just a suggestion (with no proof) that this move was a cynical one driven by drug companies who would like to treat all psychological conditions with drugs, even if they don't yet.

ASD as it was some years ago is indeed well defined. But by including Asperger's, the spectrum is extended in one direction where the difference between ASD and neurotypical is difficult to establish. The identification of Aspergers is far less well defined, and disputed, and consists of a bundle of characteristics where one can say the somebody is on this spectrum if they have half a dozen of a list of a dozen of them. Tony Attwood lists these in his book "Aspergers syndrome" but my kindle has just died so I can't reproduce the list. Off the top of my head they include:

Social awkwardness
Irrational obsession with something trivial such as physical placing of objects
Extreme sensitivity to sensual input, intolerance to noises, lights
Extremely sensitive skin
Dislike of crowds
Ability for intense focus on one subject or task for long periods
Inability to switch from one task to another
Acute perception of pattern and order
Overwhelming requirement for routine
Emotional meltdowns of one type or another if any of the above requirements are not met.
Different ways of empathising / excessive empathising (suppressed, seen by some as no empathising)
Need for rules and lists
Special interests
.
.

None of the above are particularly spectacular, any probably everybody can identify with one or more on the list, which itself is open to challenge. Yet a combination of several of the characteristics gives a clearly identifiable mental makeup. As an example, I can relate how one of my granddaughters behaves: at the age of 4 she and I spent 2 hours without pause making little models out of elastic bands, and she was sad when the supply of materials ran out. At the meal table, ice cream with raspberries turns up, and she insists that she needs exactly 3 raspberries, and goes beserk (screaming, shouting, sobbing) when they are not distributed in an exact equilateral triangle on the ice cream. At the age of 6 she spoke like an adult and talked about astronomy and has a large collection of bugs. The list of unusual characteristics is long. Yet she is a model pupil in school, and speaking to teachers they clearly have no idea that she is different because at school, she knows how to behave in a neurotypical manner and plays this role when she knows that she has to.

The point I was making with all this is that if Asperger's is included as a type of autism, and if all autism is classified as a disability, there is something seriously wrong with the classification.


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Percent of ASD people who are atheists.  |  Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:19 am
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Interesting question. I'd find it compelling if I wished to prove that religious parents mess their kids up. However...

Another question to ask is, can religion *help* people with ASD? They want rules and certainty, right?

I predict that a significant number of people with ASD "self-medicate" with religious beliefs & rituals. I mean, they do this as a consequence of their condition.


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