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Rory
Post  Post subject: Populism  |  Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 9:31 am
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Interesting use of language by the BBC: 'Will the populist wave hit France?'

Implies that the people's fundamental constant human need for autonomy is actually:

1. An external agent with which they are at risk of becoming infected

2. Impermanent - waves hit and subside

3. Negative - has anybody ever wanted to be hit by anything? :? Okay stop with the dirty minds. :) "Hit" is ordinarily an aggressive, negative term.

The BBC are so off the mark, I just read now to see what garbage they are feeding to the masses.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:13 pm
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There doesn't appear to be anything here for discussion. Perhaps you meant to post this in the rant thread

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:30 pm
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Question: do you agree with this interpretation of the linguistics?

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:52 am

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If by external agent they mean the popularism isn't coming from French citizens, that's bollucks.


I think there's a strong psychological disposition towards close group associations that stems from rudimentary distrust of strangers that help protect us or send an alarm from birth. Later and for many into adulthood this translates into support of family or even nepotism, tribalism and relevant to the context of the OP nationalism such as sweeping the US and Europe.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:24 am
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National identity and tribal protection are probably factors alongside:

(i) Desire to undermine globalisation, which feeds competition in the wrong direction, with a race to the bottom. i.e. if you can tolerate the lowest of wages for the most strenuous labour, the worst working conditions, least job security and most dehumanisation - then you will have a competitive advantage in the labour market when the MNCs come to buy you.

(ii) The on-paper economy looks great but is nowhere near an accurate reflection of the real economy, of the real every day experiences of ordinary citizens across the West. Not sure who the political elite think they're fooling, but it ain't the 99%.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 3:58 pm
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Rory wrote:
Desire to undermine globalisation, which feeds competition in the wrong direction

What is the "right" direction and who defines that? How is it defined?

Rory wrote:
The on-paper economy looks great but is nowhere near an accurate reflection of the real economy, of the real every day experiences of ordinary citizens across the West. Not sure who the political elite think they're fooling, but it ain't the 99%.

If the current measures are "wrong," what measures do you propose we replace them with instead?

You appear to be relying on gut feeling and anecdote, but I'm sure that can't be what you're proposing we all do, right?

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:57 pm

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Rory wrote:
National identity and tribal protection are probably factors alongside:

(i) Desire to undermine globalisation, which feeds competition in the wrong direction, with a race to the bottom.


BS

Actually, it's a race to the top, as this slide show clear illustrates with vastly improved conditions across almost the entire globe as they all approach and sometime surpass Western standards of health, lower crime etc.
https://www.ted.com/talks/hans_rosling_ ... _ever_seen


And I have a similar spin as others....what other economy is there other than "on paper." When the facts don't support your position, it's most reasonable to consider that perhaps your position is wrong or based on faulty assumptions.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:07 pm
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The talk you cite refers to global health which has improved. So what?

I'm talking about MNCs outsourcing from the West to LEDCs and undercutting wages.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/29/so-called-free-trade-policies-hurt-us-workers-every-time-we-pass-them

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Last edited by Rory on Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:15 pm
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There's the real economy. Stocks are massively over-valued, they're being pumped by the Fed. The unemployment rate looks at its best rate ever. Meanwhile in the real world workers are working one or two part time, low paid, insecure, low skilled jobs that are a far cry from the full time, high paid, permanent, high skilled jobs for which they are trained or to which they feel a calling. The GDP is a damp squib even after the Treasury have done their best to massage the figures. Unemployment disregards the increase in economically inactive. The GDP includes prostitution - that's how desperate the Chancellor is. The Fed promised rate hikes for years and we've got to 0.25% - because we can't afford to service the national debt at market normal of 6%. It's all just smoke and mirrors, Brexiters and Trump supporters know reality - they live it. The politicians just draw it on axes.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:00 pm
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I see a lot of words. Interesting that none of them answer my actual questions. Here they are again for convenience.

iNow wrote:
Rory wrote:
Desire to undermine globalisation, which feeds competition in the wrong direction

What is the "right" direction and who defines that? How is it defined?

Rory wrote:
The on-paper economy looks great but is nowhere near an accurate reflection of the real economy, of the real every day experiences of ordinary citizens across the West. Not sure who the political elite think they're fooling, but it ain't the 99%.

If the current measures are "wrong," what measures do you propose we replace them with instead?

You appear to be relying on gut feeling and anecdote, but I'm sure that can't be what you're proposing we all do, right?

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iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Populism  |  Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:01 pm

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Rory wrote:
The talk you cite refers to global health which has improved. So what?



Because it's probably the best available proxy for overall population quality of life. And as I said before, it's not a rush to the bottom nearly as much as the rest of the world has large caught up with the US and Europe. Almost no one has actually gone backwards.


Quote:


Fair enough....but perhaps you should read Sander's points again, because you are missing one of his main points and one he's been hammering on for decades:
"It is part of an effort to boost the profits of large corporations and Wall Street by offshoring jobs, undercutting worker rights, and dismantling labor, environmental, health, food safety and financial laws. "

You see this is where nationalism in one of it's worst but all-to-common forms bites the US in the ass-- it's coupled to a reluctance to frame international laws in a way that basic working conditions and environmental protections are put into place for all workers, everywhere--- so some job in West Virginia mine isn't being replaced by a 13 year old working 80 hour weeks in some developing world county's with 19th century mining safety.

Quote:
There's the real economy. Stocks are massively over-valued, they're being pumped by the Fed. The unemployment rate looks at its best rate ever. Meanwhile in the real world workers are working one or two part time, low paid, insecure, low skilled jobs that are a far cry from the full time, high paid, permanent, high skilled jobs for which they are trained or to which they feel a calling. The GDP is a damp squib even after the Treasury have done their best to massage the figures.

Care to back any of that up with actual data. Or you just going to complain about the paper economy some more and just assume we should take your word for it.


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