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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does no  |  Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:20 pm
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This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:52 pm
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Well, first I would ask for the demonstrable, repeatable evidence that (any)god exists.

Please no proselytizing.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:40 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Please no proselytizing.

^What he said

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:03 pm
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proof ? you call this proof ?
if, as any atheist will tell you, god doesn't exist, how can he be evil ?

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:40 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


Or God is entirely a figment of the imagination and does not exist at all. So whether or not he is good or evil is a moot point.

Or if I was to play along and say that God was real, I could argue that God wasn't evil because I believe in a different God.

Hopefully that helps show the ridiculousness of your position.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:09 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Well, first I would ask for the demonstrable, repeatable evidence that (any)god exists.

Please no proselytizing.


There is no such thing as far as I know.

That is why I prefer to analyse the morality of the God many believe in. An end game can come from such.

There is no end game in discussions of God's existence.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:11 pm
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marnixR wrote:
proof ? you call this proof ?
if, as any atheist will tell you, god doesn't exist, how can he be evil ?


It is moral proof with reference to what the bible says.

If an atheist uses that type of logical fallacy, I tend to ignore him, even though he is likely correct.

That is why most atheists say things like God likely does not exist.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:14 pm
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Falconer360 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


Or God is entirely a figment of the imagination and does not exist at all. So whether or not he is good or evil is a moot point.

Or if I was to play along and say that God was real, I could argue that God wasn't evil because I believe in a different God.

Hopefully that helps show the ridiculousness of your position.


I am sure that the point is not moot to women and gays who are being denied full equality by those foolish enough to believe that Yahweh is a good God.

The O.P. was not written for those who intelligently ignore the bible. It was written to show believers that they believe in an immoral God.

Regards
DL


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:49 pm
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you're preaching to the wrong audience then
I'd say the vast majority of this forum's membership does not belong to the group you're trying to shake out of its complacency

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 7:50 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Well, first I would ask for the demonstrable, repeatable evidence that (any)god exists.

Please no proselytizing.


There is no such thing as far as I know.

That is why I prefer to analyse the morality of the God many believe in. An end game can come from such.

There is no end game in discussions of God's existence.

Regards
DL

You admit there is no evidence, and yet you persist in posting about the topic. That is proselytizing. You have been told that is not acceptable.

All the rest of what you posted is drivel in the light that you admit there is no proof of any diety

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:32 pm
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marnixR wrote:
you're preaching to the wrong audience then
I'd say the vast majority of this forum's membership does not belong to the group you're trying to shake out of its complacency


Understood but I cannot know who is lurking about without making an effort to draw them into discussion.

That aside, I do not mind trying to convince those that give religions respect, that they should not be doing so and in fact should be fighting religions as a good way to end the evils they bring to society.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:50 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
marnixR wrote:
you're preaching to the wrong audience then
I'd say the vast majority of this forum's membership does not belong to the group you're trying to shake out of its complacency


Understood but I cannot know who is lurking about without making an effort to draw them into discussion.

That aside, I do not mind trying to convince those that give religions respect, that they should not be doing so and in fact should be fighting religions as a good way to end the evils they bring to society.

Regards
DL

You are going about it in a very odd manner, and repetedly on the wrong forums

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:11 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
marnixR wrote:
you're preaching to the wrong audience then
I'd say the vast majority of this forum's membership does not belong to the group you're trying to shake out of its complacency


Understood but I cannot know who is lurking about without making an effort to draw them into discussion.

That aside, I do not mind trying to convince those that give religions respect, that they should not be doing so and in fact should be fighting religions as a good way to end the evils they bring to society.

Regards
DL

You are going about it in a very odd manner,


If you find a better way, let me know.

Regards
DL


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:41 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If you find a better way, let me know.


go to Tehran, take a soap box and a camera crew and try to spread the word without being torn to pieces - should make a good YouTube video

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 6:52 pm
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marnixR wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If you find a better way, let me know.


go to Tehran, take a soap box and a camera crew and try to spread the word without being torn to pieces - should make a good YouTube video


Not quite a better way that, although it is close to a truth.

Regards
DL


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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 12, 2016 11:03 pm

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The OP could just find a forum that gives a shit... Or get a blog and stop wasting our time...

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 8:46 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If you find a better way, let me know.


Stop acting like your personal version of religion is the only acceptable one, and stop acting like all other version are mono-cultures that only ever behave the way you see it (Eg Islam).

Also stop being a plank that ignores all points that show your posts to be false.

And stop pretending that data and evidence are not required in your posts.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:47 pm
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Thanks all.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 2:21 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thanks all.

Regards
DL

so you again avoid addressing the points.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:19 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thanks all.

Regards
DL

so you again avoid addressing the points.


When it is off topic, yes.

Regards
DL


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:37 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


Most of the people that come to this forum doesn't believe in god, as you have seen.
May be you'll find more interesting answers in a religious forum...


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:41 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


Most of the people that come to this forum doesn't believe in god, as you have seen.
May be you'll find more interesting answers in a religious forum...


Seems you are correct but I have no way of knowing if there are believers lurking about here or not.

Strange that there is a religious section here if there are no religious.

Regards
DL


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:46 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Thanks all.

Regards
DL

so you again avoid addressing the points.


When it is off topic, yes.

Regards
DL

Its NOT off topic though, you simply do not want to address the points.

I will ask for a second time.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 6:52 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God does not live by his own golden rule.

God kills when he could just as easily cure. This is irrefutable.

This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

God then is clearly evil.

Do you agree with Jesus that anyone who breaks the golden rule is evil?

Regards
DL


Most of the people that come to this forum doesn't believe in god, as you have seen.
May be you'll find more interesting answers in a religious forum...


Seems you are correct but I have no way of knowing if there are believers lurking about here or not.

Strange that there is a religious section here if there are no religious.

Regards
DL


I believe it's mostly to discuss scientific facts. You would have to prove the existence of "a god" to further talk about if this god is evil or not.

I believe that humans are capable of doing both right are wrong, so "god" is out of the discussion.
The only discussion I find plausible is that of god's existence and those related to what we call "miracles".


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:00 pm
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paleoichneum wrote:
[
Its NOT off topic though, you simply do not want to address the points.

I will ask for a second time.


I looked above and saw statements but nothing with a question mark.

What is your on topic question?

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:06 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
I believe it's mostly to discuss scientific facts. You would have to prove the existence of "a god" to further talk about if this god is evil or not.

I believe that humans are capable of doing both right are wrong, so "god" is out of the discussion.
The only discussion I find plausible is that of god's existence and those related to what we call "miracles".


A waste of time.

There are no scientific facts to prove a Go0d exists so this part of the forum should be quite empty.

The only facts for the Christian God is what has been written of him and that is what I am analyzing.

That may well be a misuse of the word facts but you know what I mean.

Those facts and their belief by Christians is what is doing the damage and causing Christianity to be a homophobic and misogynous religion that follows a genocidal son murdering God while calling that God good.

Regards
DL


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:18 pm
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Quote:

A waste of time.

There are no scientific facts to prove a Go0d exists so this part of the forum should be quite empty.

The only facts for the Christian God is what has been written of him and that is what I am analyzing.

That may well be a misuse of the word facts but you know what I mean.

Those facts and their belief by Christians is what is doing the damage and causing Christianity to be a homophobic and misogynous religion that follows a genocidal son murdering God while calling that God good.

Regards
DL


The problem is that what has been written (that was not refuted) are ideas.... related to the fields of sociology, psychology, morality, ethics...etc
What I find as a mistake is to ascribe those written ideas to a "god" or to its human-god son.... and not to humans... which are the real individuals that created those ideas...
It's a pity that we, humans, belittle ourselves like that.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 7:51 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
Quote:

A waste of time.

There are no scientific facts to prove a Go0d exists so this part of the forum should be quite empty.

The only facts for the Christian God is what has been written of him and that is what I am analyzing.

That may well be a misuse of the word facts but you know what I mean.

Those facts and their belief by Christians is what is doing the damage and causing Christianity to be a homophobic and misogynous religion that follows a genocidal son murdering God while calling that God good.

Regards
DL


The problem is that what has been written (that was not refuted) are ideas.... related to the fields of sociology, psychology, morality, ethics...etc
What I find as a mistake is to ascribe those written ideas to a "god" or to its human-god son.... and not to humans... which are the real individuals that created those ideas...
It's a pity that we, humans, belittle ourselves like that.


Indeed.

Not all religions do so.

Gnostic Christianity and Karaite Jews do not. We put people above God and can overrule anything that God, as spoken of by people, ahead of what they said or wrote of said God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:59 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Strange that there is a religious section here if there are no religious.

Duly noted. Please move the conversation forward now.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gnostic Christianity and Karaite Jews do not. We put people above God and can overrule anything that God, as spoken of by people, ahead of what they said or wrote of said God.

Stop proselytizing or the conversation will be terminated.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:30 am

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
This is a clear violation of the golden rule. The golden rule as articulated by Jesus.

Not really. There's little evidence and it was pretty common interpretation until recently that the Golden Rules as articulated by Jesus only really applied to other Christians.




Quote:
Strange that there is a religious section here if there are no religious.

I think the intent is not this be a religious section per say, but about the study of religion... as much as discussions about the empirical evidence for people's beliefs about their religion, not necessarily those beliefs in their own right. We could, for example, have a discussion about the number of people who think they see mother Mary, based on stories, surveys etc. without ever getting into a discussion about whether there even really is a mother Mary-- in fact most here would probably assume there is no such thing.


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:32 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
Quote:

A waste of time.

There are no scientific facts to prove a Go0d exists so this part of the forum should be quite empty.

The only facts for the Christian God is what has been written of him and that is what I am analyzing.

That may well be a misuse of the word facts but you know what I mean.

Those facts and their belief by Christians is what is doing the damage and causing Christianity to be a homophobic and misogynous religion that follows a genocidal son murdering God while calling that God good.

Regards
DL


The problem is that what has been written (that was not refuted) are ideas.... related to the fields of sociology, psychology, morality, ethics...etc
What I find as a mistake is to ascribe those written ideas to a "god" or to its human-god son.... and not to humans... which are the real individuals that created those ideas...
It's a pity that we, humans, belittle ourselves like that.


Indeed.

Not all religions do so.

Gnostic Christianity and Karaite Jews do not. We put people above God and can overrule anything that God, as spoken of by people, ahead of what they said or wrote of said God.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL

So... where do you stand on this topic? Are you religious? are you dissapointed because you have reached the conclusion that god is evil?
What drove you to start this thread?


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:21 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
So... where do you stand on this topic? Are you religious? are you dissapointed because you have reached the conclusion that god is evil?
What drove you to start this thread?


The desire to have Christians have a good look at their genocidal son murdering God to see if such a God could possibly be good.

I stand with Gnostic Christians who have always seen Yahweh as a vile and evil demiurge.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am more spiritually minded than religiously minded.

I see a lot of good in local churches while also seeing the evil of the churches ruled by a central power. We all have a hivish instinct that pushes us to seek fellowship and churches are sometimes useful to that instinct.

I see God in all people and we are more good than evil. What disappoints me is that people can look at evil Gods and call them good.

I thank you for the questions.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:23 pm
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Strange that there is a religious section here if there are no religious.

Duly noted. Please move the conversation forward now.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Gnostic Christianity and Karaite Jews do not. We put people above God and can overrule anything that God, as spoken of by people, ahead of what they said or wrote of said God.

Stop proselytizing or the conversation will be terminated.


Giving facts is not proselytizing.

Your discernment is off the mark.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:35 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Your discernment is off the mark.

That's for me to decide. Keep this up and I'll lock it now. Move along, please.

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:39 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
So... where do you stand on this topic? Are you religious? are you dissapointed because you have reached the conclusion that god is evil?
What drove you to start this thread?


The desire to have Christians have a good look at their genocidal son murdering God to see if such a God could possibly be good.

I stand with Gnostic Christians who have always seen Yahweh as a vile and evil demiurge.

As a Gnostic Christian, I am more spiritually minded than religiously minded.

I see a lot of good in local churches while also seeing the evil of the churches ruled by a central power. We all have a hivish instinct that pushes us to seek fellowship and churches are sometimes useful to that instinct.

I see God in all people and we are more good than evil. What disappoints me is that people can look at evil Gods and call them good.

I thank you for the questions.

Regards
DL


So you believe in some kind of god, but not the "montheistic" version of god...

PS: Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 7:41 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....

You're fine. No worries. The OP is the one subject to my mod comments. Appreciate you making sure, though

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:00 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
[

So you believe in some kind of god, but not the "montheistic" version of god...

PS: Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....


I will take a chance and answer and hope it is not seen as proselytizing and is seen as just information.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers who still think of God the way the ancients did before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping cults.

This link say it quite well.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

We are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists and see reality as expressed by the following.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

I sometimes follow that statement with this one and a science forum might be a good place for it as no one has been able to refute it to date.

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBe ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:03 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
[
So you believe in some kind of god, but not the "montheistic" version of god...

PS: Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....


I forgot to give you these that show where we think God is.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

This from my favorite philosopher expands on this theme.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alRNbes ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Thu Dec 15, 2016 8:19 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
[

So you believe in some kind of god, but not the "montheistic" version of god...

PS: Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....


I will take a chance and answer and hope it is not seen as proselytizing and is seen as just information.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers who still think of God the way the ancients did before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping cults.

This link say it quite well.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

We are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists and see reality as expressed by the following.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

I sometimes follow that statement with this one and a science forum might be a good place for it as no one has been able to refute it to date.

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBe ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


Ok, this says a lot about your way of thinking.

So look... I understand the concept of an omnipresent god in the way you pose it, But it has nothing to do with the monotheistic version of it. That's one of my critics to people that believe in "god" but are not religious people in the traditional sense of the word religious.

When people start talking about god in a more pantheistic way (though it's not pantheism) the concept of god gets confusing... which feeds my atheism because we believe in god the way we want to and ascribe it the charachteristics we want to. So basically the idea of god is ahmmmm how you say it..."tailored" (I think that's the expression).

But as long as you do good to others it's all about tolerance... so everyone can believe in what ever they want...

know what I mean?


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 12:00 am
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M_Gabriela wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
M_Gabriela wrote:
[

So you believe in some kind of god, but not the "montheistic" version of god...

PS: Sorry.. is this discussion not allowed? Cause I'm only asking out of curiosity....


I will take a chance and answer and hope it is not seen as proselytizing and is seen as just information.

Gnostic Christians are perpetual seekers who still think of God the way the ancients did before Christianity and Islam became idol worshiping cults.

This link say it quite well.

http://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

We are esoteric ecumenists and naturalists and see reality as expressed by the following.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.
If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.
But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

I sometimes follow that statement with this one and a science forum might be a good place for it as no one has been able to refute it to date.

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, given all the conditions at hand. That is an irrefutable statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOGEyBe ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


Ok, this says a lot about your way of thinking.

So look... I understand the concept of an omnipresent god in the way you pose it, But it has nothing to do with the monotheistic version of it. That's one of my critics to people that believe in "god" but are not religious people in the traditional sense of the word religious.

When people start talking about god in a more pantheistic way (though it's not pantheism) the concept of god gets confusing... which feeds my atheism because we believe in god the way we want to and ascribe it the charachteristics we want to. So basically the idea of god is ahmmmm how you say it..."tailored" (I think that's the expression).

But as long as you do good to others it's all about tolerance... so everyone can believe in what ever they want...

know what I mean?


I think so, yes.

On monotheism.
A God is to be personal to you and yes, he is created by you.

If you look at Michelangelo's creation painting, you will see God sitting on a background of our right hemisphere of our brains. That is where the older and wiser sages knew where we would find the only God we can know. That God is also shown with a bright eyed female that represents Sophia, a goddess to Gnostic mythical thinking.

That painting shows only the one God with helpers. Not with other Gods equal to him.

Monotheism, to me, is asking us to have only one internal God who uses the wisdom he has but never to submit to just wisdom or some other thoughts on justice or compassion, but to use all of our senses to form our decisions and not sit on the fence on issues by giving wisdom or anything/anyone else enough (power) to keep us balanced on the fence.

Our internal God, that you might call our ego, is tasked to always decide the right or wrong of issues based on Gnosis.

Regards
DL


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:12 am
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can we keep the amount of text quoted to a minimum please ?

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:49 pm
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Ya M_Gabriela

Shorten things up a bit.

Kidding Marnic

Regards
DL


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:35 am
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You know.. I still don't understand why you started a thread with that question. And why you did it in a science forum.
In a science forum it will always come down to this: first prove the existence of god...then let's talk about its personality...

Anyway that's not important. I watched the video "What is God". I found it very interesting.... I agree with the lady about that there is no definition for god...That for monotheistic religions is far easier to believe in an idea of god that they can understand the better, which is in agreement with my way of thinking. People believe in god because it is a necessity, not because there actually is a god.

As I said before I believe that everything that happens, the good and the bad is driven by humans and the force of our thoughts and ideas transmit to others... seeing people doing good makes us want to do good. And that is not something we should thank to anyone or anything but US.
I'm pretty sure that is what you mean when you talk about evolving perfection and what do we see when we look around us.
That's also why I think that we really belittle ourselves way too much. But I also understand it because we are egocentric and selfish and it's difficult that we all act altruistically. We need a parent to put us boundaries.


I also don't believe that all that exist has a purpose or that our existence has a purpose. I believe we are accidents. That our mind and inteligence are adaptive carachteristics and that the fact that we can think about these kind of thoughts is like...a secondary effect of having mind...
But as we are here and we can, in fact, think about the purposes of life.. then the solution is to create them.. giving life meaning... and some of those purposes are selfish and others are... supportive.. altruistics.

PS: sorry for my english.....always working on it...hehe.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:40 am
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I understood you perfectly and your English is better than many native speakers. No worries

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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:42 pm
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Well thank you! Though... Feel free to correct me.


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 6:35 pm
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Very well said Gabby! The last paragraph particularly resonates with me. Whatever meaning our lives have, is what we have chosen it to be.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:20 pm
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M_Gabriela wrote:
Quote:
You know.. I still don't understand why you started a thread with that question. And why you did it in a science forum.
In a science forum it will always come down to this: first prove the existence of god...then let's talk about its personality...

Anyway that's not important. I watched the video "What is God". I found it very interesting.... I agree with the lady about that there is no definition for god...That for monotheistic religions is far easier to believe in an idea of god that they can understand the better, which is in agreement with my way of thinking. People believe in god because it is a necessity, not because there actually is a god.


Yet most here do not seem to think it necessary to believe in a God and do quite well without such a belief.

Quote:
As I said before I believe that everything that happens, the good and the bad is driven by humans and the force of our thoughts and ideas transmit to others... seeing people doing good makes us want to do good. And that is not something we should thank to anyone or anything but US.


This I agree with yet a belief in a God refutes this as most believers ascribe reality to what their God ordains it to be.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure that is what you mean when you talk about evolving perfection and what do we see when we look around us.


Indeed as we can evolve but most theist say that their God never evolves or changes.

Quote:
That's also why I think that we really belittle ourselves way too much. But I also understand it because we are egocentric and selfish and it's difficult that we all act altruistically.


Our selfish gene expresses itself by our altruism and goodness as that is quite easy and apparent to see with all the good and altruism we display and live.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ADgh3yCSdM

Quote:
We need a parent to put us boundaries.


We need parents to give us life but not for our morals particularly. Our selfish gene does the parenting as well as our Father Complex. See Jung and Freud on that.

Quote:
I also don't believe that all that exist has a purpose or that our existence has a purpose. I believe we are accidents. That our mind and inteligence are adaptive carachteristics and that the fact that we can think about these kind of thoughts is like...a secondary effect of having mind...
But as we are here and we can, in fact, think about the purposes of life.. then the solution is to create them.. giving life meaning... and some of those purposes are selfish and others are... supportive.. altruistics.

PS: sorry for my english.....always working on it...hehe.


No problem my friend. I am French and am often reprimanded for my English.

Let me give you what has helped me mentally visualize my overall view.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIc-4h9RIvY

Note that our default position, even at birth, goes to altruism and wishing to do good.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2017 11:25 pm
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Falconer360 wrote:
Very well said Gabby! The last paragraph particularly resonates with me. Whatever meaning our lives have, is what we have chosen it to be.


True.

As scriptures indicate, it all starts with our thirst for knowledge.

It seems that our first step to the choice you refer to begins with the knowledge required for us to make intelligent choices.

The bible got that right from the Jewish perspective but unfortunately Christianity shows our seeking knowledge as wrong and the cause of our fall.

Jews call it our elevation and I agree with them.

Regards
DL


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:45 pm
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Quote:
Yet most here do not seem to think it necessary to believe in a God and do quite well without such a belief.


Yep.

Quote:
This I agree with yet a belief in a God refutes this as most believers ascribe reality to what their God ordains it to be


Belief in a god does not refute anything,,,, it's a belief.... it's not proven that our reality is the one made by the god others believe in.

Quote:
We need parents to give us life but not for our morals particularly. Our selfish gene does the parenting as well as our Father Complex. See Jung and Freud on that.


Our personality is a combination of genes and environment (family, friends, other people). Stimulations made by our environment are critical for the construction of our personality that includes ethics and morality; that's very well known. I'm surprised you don't think that as well.

I'm not sure where are you going with that comment. When I said that we need a parent tu put us boundaries I meant that we, humans, need of a superior figure to make us behave well. And I don't know if you're metaphorically speaking when you're referring to the "selfish gene" or literally, like there's actually just one gene that controls our selfish behavior,.,,,,(I haven't read Richard Dawkins)

Quote:
As scriptures indicate, it all starts with our thirst for knowledge.


No need for scriptures to realize that....

Quote:
but unfortunately Christianity shows our seeking knowledge as wrong and the cause of our fall.


Because it's not convenient for them that people think for themselves.

Gaby


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: This is incontrovertible proof that God is evil. God doe  |  Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2017 7:05 pm
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Jung Freud and the selfish gene are three things I would not lay much foundation on. Why do you pick them?

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