FAQ
It is currently Mon Oct 23, 2017 10:21 pm


Author Message
marnixR
Post  Post subject: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 3:22 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
when long-life light bulbs came on the market I was especially pleased to replace the spotlights in the kitchen which until then had to be replaced every other month - now they last for more than a year and then some

however, even long-life bulbs go in the end, so when I went to look for replacements, I noticed that this type of light bulb is no longer available for spotlights - all there is is LED and halogen

so I bought a set of each to see how they would perform in comparison with their predecessors

what I want to ask is : (1) why are they no longer available; and (2) does anyone know how long they will last ?

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:20 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 276

Offline
marnixR wrote:
when long-life light bulbs came on the market I was especially pleased to replace the spotlights in the kitchen which until then had to be replaced every other month - now they last for more than a year and then some

however, even long-life bulbs go in the end, so when I went to look for replacements, I noticed that this type of light bulb is no longer available for spotlights - all there is is LED and halogen

so I bought a set of each to see how they would perform in comparison with their predecessors

what I want to ask is : (1) why are they no longer available; and (2) does anyone know how long they will last ?


I don't know,but just as a practical bit of information some of them are more fragile than others and I have broken them by mishandling/forcing them (the spiral staircases ones).

I also wonder whether some of them are more "open to the elements" in that wandering insects can fall in and cause them to short (just a suspicion based on burn marks at the base of the coils )


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:45 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
fragility shouldn't come into the picture - i was talking about their lifespan once they're in place
as for insects accessing light bulbs : how / where would they get in + wouldn't either the vacuum or the carrier gas (whichever of the two is being used) dissipate if their was somewhere where an insect could get in ?

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:26 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 276

Offline
marnixR wrote:
fragility shouldn't come into the picture - i was talking about their lifespan once they're in place
as for insects accessing light bulbs : how / where would they get in + wouldn't either the vacuum or the carrier gas (whichever of the two is being used) dissipate if their was somewhere where an insect could get in ?

That is true but I don't know about their comparative longevity (obviously I do look at the price tag).

With the non long life bulbs I based my opinion on name and provenance of the manufacturer and generally tried to buy from a reputable maker in the same way I have always felt that Fairy liquid was much better value than cheap alternatives. Cheap bulbs were nearly always a waste of time and money.

No ,the insect hypothesis seems less than likely but wasn't supposing it got in just perhaps that it died in a bad place and perhaps became a source of extra heat that cracked the glass (sounds even less plausible) .

I think there are more than one type of long life bulb but I don't know which is which or hw or why they are different


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:00 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
bought mine in B&Q - not sure what brand though, there wasn't that much choice anyway
we'll see how it goes, maybe I'm fretting over nothing and they'll last just as long

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:21 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5730
Location: Iowa

Offline
Low sales / cost to produce too high / lower cost alternatives turned out to be better performing?

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:57 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 276

Offline
iNow wrote:
Low sales / cost to produce too high / lower cost alternatives turned out to be better performing?



Is it me or you? I can't make out what you are asking.

Should "too" read "to" ?

Can you rephrase?

Are you asking whether it is more economic to buy cheaper ,poorer quality bulbs and just replace them more frequently?


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 2:30 am
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5730
Location: Iowa

Offline
Brevity may be the soul of wit, but alas when I try it's merely the source of confusion. I should also have used the quote function. Mea culpa.

Marnix wondered why the bulbs he'd previously purchased were no longer available. I looked at it from a business perspective and offered three possibilities that seem feasible and plausible as explanations.

1) Sales were too low on the previous version and the company went out of business / chose to halt production

2) The cost to produce the previous version was too high and the company went out of business / chose to halt production

3) New technology came to market and were considered higher performing or higher value so the previous version simply lost the rat race / got out-competed and taken from the shelves

There are lots of other possibilities. Those were just 3 I could type quickly before heading to dinner. Cheers!

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:38 am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
my cynical self tends to agree with iNow's first remark

the long-life bulbs were too successful in their aim and sales slumped because no-one needed any

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
g o r t
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:22 am

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:16 am
Posts: 18

Offline
marnixR wrote:
what I want to ask is : (1) why are they no longer available?


Here in the United States, Federal policy is to phase out all production of "non-exempt" incandescent light bulbs.
They can still be imported, for the time being.
I understand that small halogen bulbs will make their last stand here in 2020.

Don't know about European laws.
The rest of the market will adjust.

For a time there were commercial light socket inserts to reduce the voltage to standard bulbs and make them effectively "long life". Have not noticed them lately, and of course they lower the color temperature of the bulb.


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 10:56 am

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 276

Offline
iNow wrote:
Brevity may be the soul of wit, but alas when I try it's merely the source of confusion. I should also have used the quote function. Mea culpa.

Marnix wondered why the bulbs he'd previously purchased were no longer available. I looked at it from a business perspective and offered three possibilities that seem feasible and plausible as explanations.

1) Sales were too low on the previous version and the company went out of business / chose to halt production

2) The cost to produce the previous version was too high and the company went out of business / chose to halt production

3) New technology came to market and were considered higher performing or higher value so the previous version simply lost the rat race / got out-competed and taken from the shelves

There are lots of other possibilities. Those were just 3 I could type quickly before heading to dinner. Cheers!

Dear Lyndon
no, the fault was mine

your's sincerely

Gerald (Pres) :oops: :oops: :oops: (no fault in the mine)


Top
Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:09 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:17 am
Posts: 251
Location: US Pacific NorthWest

Offline
g o r t wrote:
and of course they lower the color temperature of the bulb.


And the efficiency light/watt.....

The history is interesting, though, long life bulbs have always been easy to make--going all the way back to the 1930s and an excellent example where capitalism works against having the best long-lived products.


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 4:44 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
despite their appearance, halogen light bulbs are not the same as the old incandescent ones - those have gone off the market a few years back

i found some info comparing the lot, and it appears that the LEDs should be doing best of them all

Image

LEDs also have the lowest wattage

Image

(click to enlarge)

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:11 pm

Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm
Posts: 276

Offline
Does anyone know what is the difference between a standard bulb and a "daylight bulb"?

I have seen that they are supposes to flicker less and they seem to be quite expensive...

Do they carry a wider,more balanced range of frequencies perhaps?


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:15 am
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5730
Location: Iowa

Offline
I know the intent is to better represent sunlight, something frequently appreciated by individuals applying makeup who struggle to do that well with poor lighting or fluorescent, but I'm not familiar with the technology that allows it.

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
g o r t
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 7:02 am

Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:16 am
Posts: 18

Offline
geordief wrote:
Do they carry a wider,more balanced range of frequencies perhaps?


Higher wattage with a filter coating.


Top
One beer
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 11:48 am
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 9:05 am
Posts: 96

Offline
Daylight bulbs are generally brighter and have a higher colour temperature than 'standard' incandescent bulbs.

Standard incandescents have a colour temperature of about 3200 Kelvin, and that of our Sun is about 7200K.

(figures from memory)

Daylight bulbs give better colour rendering - useful for fabric designers and artists etc., and they are also used to combat SAD - seasonal affected disorder, which is when people can get depressed if they do not see enough sunlight.

3200K is actually quite yellow in colour and 7200K is distinctly blue. The "daylight" colour gels used on television lights are quite blue to look at, but the brain has an automatic white balance adjustment, so we rarely notice the difference - unless two different colour temperature light sources are seen together.

OB


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2016 2:00 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
my impression was that long-life bulbs work on the same principle as fluorescent tube lighting, which is to ionise mercury vapour inside a glass tube, whereas an incandescent bulb heats up a filament to high temperatures
maybe that's why fell out of favour, because if you break a bulb like that you have the potential of spreading mercury compounds all over the place

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 5:49 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:17 am
Posts: 251
Location: US Pacific NorthWest

Offline
marnixR wrote:
my impression was that long-life bulbs work on the same principle as fluorescent tube lighting, which is to ionise mercury vapour inside a glass tube, whereas an incandescent bulb heats up a filament to high temperatures
maybe that's why fell out of favour, because if you break a bulb like that you have the potential of spreading mercury compounds all over the place


In the US it usually is just a thicker filament incandescent, perhaps made with a different material so they can run brighter for similar energy input:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-60-W ... /204983941


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:18 pm
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
so I suppose they don't look anything like the middle bulb marked "energy saver (CFL)" ?

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 5:21 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 232

Offline
Sometimes efficiency is not such a good thing. 100% of what we call inefficiency does ultimately become heat. Then look to a part of the world were the greenest way to heat a home is with hydroelectricity or some other zero-carbon electricity: the "inefficiency" of every electric appliance is helping to heat the home just as "efficiently" as the coils in a baseboard heater. Furthermore consider that in northern countries our summers when we don't want heat we neither consume much artificial light because windows and skylights admit the northern sunlight past 10 pm.

Then if lifetime energy efficiency is moot, I just want appliances with the lowest environmental costs to manufacture and dispose of.

I blame the North American Free Trade Agreement working to please the State of California.


Anyway, an incandescent goes when the airtight seal fails (why the filament requires a glass bulb!).


Top
marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:13 am
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 8:35 pm
Posts: 4883
Location: Cardiff, Wales

Offline
what bugged me most of all with the incandescent spotlights in our kitchen was that I had to replace them every other month

the long-life ones did exactly what it said on the tin, which is that last a lot longer -which is something that suits me fine

_________________
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
"Someone is WRONG on the internet" (xkcd)


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:07 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 232

Offline
Anecdotally I've suspected correlation with bulb heat and also vibration. If true the worst situation would be above a stove and inset rigidly into a ceiling "pot-light" people walk over.

OTOH if air seeping into the bulb is the ultimate cause, then whatever weakens the seal is to blame. Thermal cycling? Because glass-glue-metal-gas can't possibly expand equally. Would we get significantly more hours if the bulb just stayed on?


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:47 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5730
Location: Iowa

Offline
Almost certainly not, as that would just keep it in a perpetual state of hot glowing temperature thus making the entire unit more brittle (or, to use your term, vibrational).

To me, using incandescent bulbs is just stupid. End program.

90% of the energy is lost to heat and only 10% goes to lighting, so it's horribly bad at its intended purpose.

It's a bit like wiping your ass with hundred dollar bills and still being covered in fecal matter when done. It's just stupid (unless you're putting one inside an Easy-Bake Oven for the kiddos).

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: long-life bulbs  |  Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:06 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 232

Offline
iNow wrote:
that would just keep it in a perpetual state of hot glowing temperature thus making the entire unit more brittle

By that logic a domestic hot water tank should last longer if you often cool it by drawing off great volumes of hot water. Here I'm talking about the glazed steel tank, not the elements. We know the problem is that glass and steel expand differently from temperature change, so the glazing cracks and becomes less bonded to the steel, allowing microscopic seepage to rust a hole in it. Where people have two tanks in series, the "never cold" tank remains basically new... it far outlasts the same-model tank parked beside it.

I'm suggesting that thermal cycling of a lightbulb eventually breaks the seal due to differential expansion. The admission of air then kills the filament. We observe the broken filament, and look no further for the cause of failure.

Well there are dozens of simple ways to test my hypothesis, but I'm challenged by the inconsistent quality of brand-new bulbs. Still, I'm gonna try additionally sealing a bulb: I'll use nailpolish and Oxy-guard (electrician's grease) to build up the socket area. Sample of one!



To you, Texan, using incandescent bulbs is just stupid. End program.

Okay, in your part of the world, with your unique energy and heating conditions, that blanket statement maybe valid. And maybe debatable if your Canadian basement is sunk 5' into earth that remains ~7 degrees year-round. You'll understand my point of view if you simply consider the lightbulb 100% efficient electric heater. Could such a heater be the best solution in some applications? That would be a weak 60-watt heater where a 1000-watt baseboard unit is overkill... plus the cheap solution includes a visual indicator to show the heater is working!

Or I could counter that ...some people in some parts of the world... use flame. And that's just wrong. Coal flame is a terribly inefficient and destructive means of illuminating furnaces.


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   


Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC


This free forum is proudly hosted by ProphpBB | phpBB software | Report Abuse | Privacy