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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:37 pm
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just a casual thought that entered my mind : when it comes to tech companies like Apple, who make their profit by having their produced cheaply in China, will Trump force them to relocate their production facilities to the US ?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:25 pm
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Hard to say. It's still quite uncertain. Trump can't unilaterally force Apple to do anything, but there could be tax and tariffs levied in a harsh way. Apple could also just pickup and leave if they want to.

Tim Cook wrote a memo to staff yesterday. More here:

https://techcrunch.com/2016/11/10/tim-c ... ction-win/

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:14 pm

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I have read your link to Mr Cook, it came across as word salad, but Apple may not want to show their hand just yet.
Apple leaving America is on par with Paul Bunyan leaving America, it will not happen. However strange things can and do happen.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:22 pm
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when I received internal memos like that in Tata Steel it didn't take me long to make sure that it really didn't contain anything worthwhile reading, and then I binned it within a minute as being not worthy of taking more of my time

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:40 am
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He has to be the CEO of every employee, both Trump and Clinton supporters. He doesn't want to offend his own people.

His words move markets and change billions in investments each second he speaks. He works with thousands of global partners who employ even more thousands of humans and even a simple misplaced twitch could destroy massive amounts of money and jobs and crush lives of normal people like you and me.

Seems entirely reasonable to me that he'd be measured during such an uncertain and society changing time and that his memo would be parsed by legal teams before delivery.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:18 pm

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Mr Cook should aim to make all Apple products in America. Such a move would not offend any of his workers, whether they voted Clinton or Trump.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:30 pm
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in which case your iPhone will all of a sudden double in price - even diehard Apple fans wouldn't want to fork out in excess of £1000 for their beloved phone

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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:42 pm

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What is the point of even asking this question?

We all know how "smart" the President Elect is

He will just grab the Chinese by the metaphorical pussies (they are not that smart you know) and relocate all the manufacturing jobs back to the States.

The USA can relocate its decision making faculties into his large smart corporate brain.

I feel better already.

By the way ,"pussies" must pass the language filter now ,I am sure (President Donald Trump approved its use)

Globalization no! Lots of small but important countries yes!


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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:45 pm

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The President Elect is a billionaire, he must have something between his ears. Donald Trump intends to bring jobs back to the USA . Whether these jobs are Apple or other American corporations, it has to be a good thing for America.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:40 pm
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i picked Apple as an example, not saying they're the only ones currently benefiting from low wage countries in the far east

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:39 pm
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wireless wrote:
The President Elect is a billionaire, he must have something between his ears. Donald Trump intends to bring jobs back to the USA . Whether these jobs are Apple or other American corporations, it has to be a good thing for America.

He's likely to increase infrastructure spending. That creates jobs quickly. The challenge is he doesn't seem to know how to pay for it and all objective 3rd party observers who have scored this suggestion show it as drastically increasing our deficit and debt.

Unrelated: Hitler went on a huge infrastructure spending spree when he took office and it helped him garner quite a lot of early public support for his later "deeds."

http://voxeu.org/article/nazi-pork-and- ... -and-minds

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:17 pm
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mind you Reagan did exactly the same : never mind the budget deficit, go for growth in a big way
Trump might not care about spending money that isn't really there, provided it gets the US economy to relaunch

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:28 pm
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Such a weird set of circumstances... We're actually wondering whether or not Trump is an unintended Keynesian, willing to engage in deficit spending for longer-term ROI... something the right and conservatives who elected him have traditionally and consistently rejected. :)

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:45 pm
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wireless wrote:
The President Elect is a billionaire, he must have something between his ears. Donald Trump intends to bring jobs back to the USA . Whether these jobs are Apple or other American corporations, it has to be a good thing for America.

I see you fall into the category of people who glorify manufacturing jobs. Everyone acts like our loss of American manufacturing (mind you we still manufacture a lot actually) is like a lost art form or something. But the reality is that most manufacturing jobs are low wage and low value jobs that demand intensive and physical labor. Most do not require high levels of craftsmanship, shit they're pretty much in line with working in the service industry. Which really why is working in the service industry seen more negatively than a factory worker who is just doing the same motions all day every day. At the the person in the service industry gets an experience that varies from day to day. Is this just a case of feelings that linger from the time of our grandparents (or parents for some of you)?

Also America does still do a lot of manufacturing, it's just hires less due to technology. As technology has increased over the years, more can be done with less workers. This is not something that should be bemoaned either. It is just the way of the world and of progress. It's something that has been going on since humans first started living in societies. Barring nuclear war or some sort of apocalyptic event, sometime in our future the majority of low end work will be automated. We will likely have to switch to a basic income system.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:48 pm

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wireless wrote:
The President Elect is a billionaire, he must have something between his ears. Donald Trump intends to bring jobs back to the USA . Whether these jobs are Apple or other American corporations, it has to be a good thing for America.


There's little evidence of that. In fact given his inheritance from the 1970s, his accumulation of personal wealth actually underperformed the markets. Any idiot could have performed as well... in fact most would have done better just putting his golden spoon into market index funds.

--
Getting back to the thread, while his American workers might not be offended at first, they certainly wouldn't like losing their jobs as their global market dried up for being overpriced and they were laid off not to be replaced or just laid off and replaced by automation.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:00 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
There's little evidence of that. In fact given his inheritance from the 1970s, his accumulation of personal wealth actually underperformed the markets. Any idiot could have performed as well... in fact most would have done better just putting his golden spoon into market index funds.

This is a point worth repeating since so many people are not aware of it.

Had Trump simply bought passive index funds using the huge inheritance from his daddy then he'd be significantly wealthier today. The fact that he's underperformed the market so badly instead shows how poor of a business man he truly is (not to mention the multiple bankruptcies, repeated cases of fraud, refusal to share tax returns to demonstrate this supposed financial prowess, etc.).

The "he's rich so must be smart" argument maybe applied to his daddy at some point decades ago, but it stretches truth to the breaking point when one suggests it applies to him.

He's a good performer, a good con man, and excellent at manipulating people's emotions and stoking fear and resentment of "the other" through use of the media. He is talented there in the same way PT Barnum was, but not for his quote unquote business acumen.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:54 pm

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
wireless wrote:
The President Elect is a billionaire, he must have something between his ears. Donald Trump intends to bring jobs back to the USA . Whether these jobs are Apple or other American corporations, it has to be a good thing for America.


There's little evidence of that. In fact given his inheritance from the 1970s, his accumulation of personal wealth actually underperformed the markets. Any idiot could have performed as well... in fact most would have done better just putting his golden spoon into market index funds.

--
Getting back to the thread, while his American workers might not be offended at first, they certainly wouldn't like losing their jobs as their global market dried up for being overpriced and they were laid off not to be replaced or just laid off and replaced by automation.

OK, that is one way of looking at it, but the path that Donald Trump chose was to create employment.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:05 pm
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wireless wrote:
OK, that is one way of looking at it, but the path that Donald Trump chose was to create employment.

How do you figure? You phrased this in the past tense, so I assume you're referring to his business record where he created on the order of 30K jobs?

Either way, what is the point you wish to make? That his policies will help the economy and not lead to massive debt, maybe?

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2016 11:21 pm
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iNow wrote:
wireless wrote:
OK, that is one way of looking at it, but the path that Donald Trump chose was to create employment.

How do you figure? You phrased this in the past tense, so I assume you're referring to his business record where he created on the order of 30K jobs?

Either way, what is the point you wish to make? That his policies will help the economy and not lead to massive debt, maybe?

I wouldn't hold my breath. He never addressed my point about how most manufacturing jobs were lost due to automation and technological advances.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:53 pm

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It appears that Donald Trump will dump Globalization, this will bring jobs back to America. When this happens, the way forward is fraught with danger, but this danger can me managed IMHO.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 9:37 pm
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What evidence or detail can you share about what type of jobs and how many of them will come back if Trump walls off the country? It's not as clear cut as you imply and I'd like to better understand your position.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins ... alization/

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 10:37 pm
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besides, how is he going to force China to comply with his edicts ? in this game of poker it's not obvious who has the trump cards (apologies for the mixed metaphor and the unintended pun)

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 7:04 pm
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interesting, this : Caught between Trump and a liberal place, especially the passage

Quote:
In fact, aside from a few pre-election skirmishes with Apple, President Trump has been relatively ambivalent towards tech firms, and there’s a very good theory as to why - he really needs them.


turns out that tech companies contribute so much to the US economy that Trump doesn't there to touch them

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Diane G
Post  Post subject: Re: Trump and Apple  |  Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 4:22 pm

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iNow wrote:
He's likely to increase infrastructure spending. That creates jobs quickly. The challenge is he doesn't seem to know how to pay for it and all objective 3rd party observers who have scored this suggestion show it as drastically increasing our deficit and debt.

Unrelated: Hitler went on a huge infrastructure spending spree when he took office and it helped him garner quite a lot of early public support for his later "deeds."

http://voxeu.org/article/nazi-pork-and- ... -and-minds


It's strange that I haven't seen analysis comparing things he did in business and what he is likely to do in the future. Although I often heard his supporters talk about the need to balance budget,( especially in connection to any perceived "entitlements" they hold liberals responsible for), Trump I think is likely to ignore them, or his supporters are likely to forget they once cared about a balanced budget. Trump has called himself the king of debt. He's not afraid of leverage. In his book he quoted J Paul Getty, "When you owe the bank a 100 USD, that's your problem. When you owe the banks 100 million USD, that's the bank's problem. " He went so far as say last May that if the US got into trouble, they could just force their creditors to take a hair cut on T bills Which shocked a lot of people because treasuries are bought because they hold their value in bad times, and a threat like that is not only destabilizing, but if I'm not mistaken would just raise interests for future borrowing. ( There may be subtle differences between forced renegotiating and voluntary refinancing but from I've read it still would not result in a savings. )

Anyway, my point is Trump doesn't seem afraid of debt at all or committed to Republican ideas about balanced bugets, and I think he make his supporters they ever cared about it either. He can pretty much talk them into anything. It will be interesting to see what happens when Trump and Republicans start clashing over spending.


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