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wireless
Post  Post subject: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:08 am

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Donald trump has gone from business man, to fledgling politician. to the US Presidency all in the space of 18 months. Which ever you look at it, that is one mighty achievement.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:18 am
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it's also (again) one in the eye for the pollsters : at times the margins may have been small, but Hillary Clinton always was in the lead, according to the polls

either people lie to people running the polls (not impossible), or the sampling is woefully unrepresentative

this isn't the first time this has happened : the polls did not predict brexit, or the Tory win in the latest elections, or the complete implosion of Labour in Scotland

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:20 am

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I quite agree with you. I remember watching Sky News yesterday evening. The talking head was saying how the Hispanic vote would all vote for Hillary Clinton in Florida, and when she won Florida it was all over.


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Ascended
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 10:39 am
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Well congratulations to Donald Trump. But for all you guys over in the US who didn't vote for him my thoughts are with you, I feel your pain, I thought Brexit was bad but this is next level, considering he took the house and senate as well. People all over the world are with in you in spirit, solidarity.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 7:25 pm

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Bloody hell Ascended, you say " I feel your pain ". It was just another election, the favourite lost, it happens all the time.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2016 8:05 pm
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Ascended wrote:
Well congratulations to Donald Trump. But for all you guys over in the US who didn't vote for him my thoughts are with you, I feel your pain, I thought Brexit was bad but this is next level, considering he took the house and senate as well. People all over the world are with in you in spirit, solidarity.


mind you, there's a difference between elections and brexit : in the case of Trump you know you're saddled with him for no more than eight years, and after 4 or 8 years you can always vote in the other lot if you didn't like what you got
the consequences of brexit, on the other hand, are far longer lasting (although admittedly Trump could do enough damage in his time in office) as there is no way back once we're out

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 8:37 pm

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We will not find out what Donald Trump will do in terms of damage or good until January 2017.


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Ascended
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:03 am
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wireless wrote:
We will not find out what Donald Trump will do in terms of damage or good until January 2017.


Well for better or worse one of first things he's managed to achieve, even before taking office, is that he's precipitated the formation of a new European Security Union leading to the creation of a European Army. Though there had been such talk in the European Union in the past, it was only ever in vague terms of the possibility of a future need, with many sceptical. It has now however been crystalised as a necessity and brought to the forefront of the Union's agenda, as highlighted by the speech given, only hours after the American election result, by European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker.

http://www.afr.com/news/world/will-euro ... 110-gsmtdl

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Zinjanthropos
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:26 am
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Trump is smart.... think of what usually happens after an election. That's right, the successful politician breaks campaign promises and pisses off everybody. When Trump gets around to breaking promises the opposite will happen. He's figured it out. :D

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:08 am

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Yup, that sounds about right, he has got it all figured out. :D


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M_Gabriela
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 12:44 pm
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It's interesting that he won not because the majority voted for him but because he won in many more states....
Is that still democracy?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 1:54 pm
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The electoral college is pretty weird. We also saw that half the population didn't even bother to vote. He technically only won with about 26% total.

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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:29 pm

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wireless wrote:
Donald trump has gone from business man, to fledgling politician. to the US Presidency all in the space of 18 months. Which ever you look at it, that is one mighty achievement.

An achievement built on lies is a hollow achievement.

It is however a real burden on those upon whom it has been inflicted and a failure on the part of those who have contributed to it.

I don't think congratulations are in order except as an expedient "democratic " formalilty.

I don't know which way you look at it


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Zinjanthropos
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 2:30 pm
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Candidates know how the game's played going in. Can't use it as an excuse for losing.

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 6:24 pm
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I recently learned about faithless electors. Technically, he hasn't officially won until the Electoral colleges cast their votes on December 19th. The Electors technically are free to choose who they cast their vote for, although it may cost them a $1,000 fine. There are currently two Republican electors that are so anti-Trump that prior to the election they stated that they would consider casting their votes for Clinton instead of Trump. Now two votes is not nearly enough to swing the election, but Trump has made a lot of enemies in the Republican party, so it's not impossible that more may choose not to vote for him. In the 240 year history of the US, there have been a total of 157 faithless electors. None have changed the outcome of an election to date. However, it is possible.

Personally I'm not holding out any hope for this outcome. Also the thought of the backlash from such a thing scares me. Yet a Trump Presidency scares me as well.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 7:26 pm

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geordief wrote:
wireless wrote:
Donald trump has gone from business man, to fledgling politician. to the US Presidency all in the space of 18 months. Which ever you look at it, that is one mighty achievement.

An achievement built on lies is a hollow achievement.

It is however a real burden on those upon whom it has been inflicted and a failure on the part of those who have contributed to it.

I don't think congratulations are in order except as an expedient "democratic " formalilty.

I don't know which way you look at it

The way I look at it is quite clear, it was a mighty achievement by Donald Trump, 18 months from business man to President Elect. Try doing that in the UK, it would never happen.


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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:25 pm

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wireless wrote:
The way I look at it is quite clear, it was a mighty achievement by Donald Trump, 18 months from business man to President Elect. Try doing that in the UK, it would never happen.


We can all judge the character of the man (and his supporters).

It was widely predicted that he would break his promises once he was elected . I wonder who he will blame for that

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528


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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 9:15 am

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geordief wrote:
wireless wrote:
The way I look at it is quite clear, it was a mighty achievement by Donald Trump, 18 months from business man to President Elect. Try doing that in the UK, it would never happen.


We can all judge the character of the man (and his supporters).

It was widely predicted that he would break his promises once he was elected . I wonder who he will blame for that

http://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2016-37953528

It was widely predicted that he would never be elected.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:45 pm
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just this one as a reminder that it's not the first time that the election of a candidate with an unusual background was met with disbelief - make of it what you wish


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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 12:11 pm

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I did listen to the video clip while trying to watch Sky News. Was there any mention of Bill Clinton in the song ?


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 2:34 pm
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no, this program was made in the early 1980s when Ronald Reagan was elected
in short, the song is about people believing all sorts of silly things (some of the references may be a bit dated and as such rather cryptic), but in the last line they say they can't believe Ronald Reagan is president

if you replaced Reagan with Trump, and updated the list of absurdities people believe, you could easily apply the song to today's situation

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:06 pm

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marnixR wrote:
if you replaced Reagan with Trump, and updated the list of absurdities people believe, you could easily apply the song to today's situation


Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 9:37 pm
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not even the line "i believe that pigs and even DC10s can fly" ?

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:14 pm
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wireless wrote:
marnixR wrote:
if you replaced Reagan with Trump, and updated the list of absurdities people believe, you could easily apply the song to today's situation


Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities.

Please stop with the derogatory comments at "democrats" and "liberal elite". This is a science discussion forum, not a partisan forum.

Be prepared to provide scientific data to support your assertions if you make them...

reported

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:54 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
wireless wrote:
marnixR wrote:
if you replaced Reagan with Trump, and updated the list of absurdities people believe, you could easily apply the song to today's situation


Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities.

Please stop with the derogatory comments at "democrats" and "liberal elite". This is a science discussion forum, not a partisan forum.

Be prepared to provide scientific data to support your assertions if you make them...

reported

If you want to be part of the eternally professionally offended people you are heading down the correct road.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 1:48 am
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wireless wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
wireless wrote:

Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities.

Please stop with the derogatory comments at "democrats" and "liberal elite". This is a science discussion forum, not a partisan forum.

Be prepared to provide scientific data to support your assertions if you make them...

reported

If you want to be part of the eternally professionally offended people you are heading down the correct road.

You avoided my point. Which was that you have made a demonstrably overarching negative generalization of a group you do not like. Its not scientific and not professional.

Cite the reliable scientific sources/data that support your assertion.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:08 am
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I encourage all posters to relax a bit.

While I agree that wireless' dismissive comments about broad swaths of people are unhelpful and unproductive, he clearly was stating an opinion above, prefaced it with the word "probably," and did so in the Politics forum where the usual standards of evidence tend to be somewhat relaxed.

I do find the particular opinion he shared above to be rather ridiculous and unnecessarily inflammatory myself, but he is entitled to share it without citing studies and peer reviewed research in support.

Note: This is not some broad proclamation about site rules and standards overall, but is instead a comment on this specific exchange in this specific thread coupled with a broader appeal for civility, in general.

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 9:30 am

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I do not see anything offensive or derogatory in my previous posts when talking about Democrats. Here are a few words from Clinton about Trump supporters, the crowd loved it.
“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right?

“The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic – you name it. And unfortunately, there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.

“Some of those folks,” she added, “they are irredeemable.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... nald-trump


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 11:13 pm
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Wireless - Can you help us understand what specific point you're intending to make by sharing those quotes from random people across the last several months?

Is it possible you're asserting there is an equivalence in the name calling and labels being bandied about by both sides and that it's somewhat hypocritical to speak only of one side doing it?

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:25 am

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All I did was type ten inoffensive words, which were, " Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities " Paleoichneum then spits the dummy out and sees fit to report me . I merely used a quote in my previous post from Clinton, as a comparison to my post that apparently left paleoichneum shaken to the core. What I am trying to say, is that there is no equivalence between Clinton`s rhetoric and my ten very bland words. This is a storm in a tea cup.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:15 pm
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I probably need more coffee, as I'm still unclear, but am sure the fault lies with me and won't belabor it.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:19 pm
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iNow wrote:
I probably need more coffee, as I'm still unclear, but am sure the fault lies with me and won't belabor it.

From my point of view the fault doesn't.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:28 pm
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wireless wrote:
All I did was type ten inoffensive words, which were, " Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities " Paleoichneum then spits the dummy out and sees fit to report me . I merely used a quote in my previous post from Clinton, as a comparison to my post that apparently left paleoichneum shaken to the core. What I am trying to say, is that there is no equivalence between Clinton`s rhetoric and my ten very bland words. This is a storm in a tea cup.

The thing is they may have been inoffensive, if you had made it factual. If you had stated some, a section, portions etc of the democrats... That would have been factual. You didn't though and that's what makes yours statement false.

Spits the dummy?

What makes you think you "shook me to my core", rather then what actually happened (eg, real life happened and I had not responded to you yet)

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wireless
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:04 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
wireless wrote:
All I did was type ten inoffensive words, which were, " Democrats, probably do not think that they believe in absurdities " Paleoichneum then spits the dummy out and sees fit to report me . I merely used a quote in my previous post from Clinton, as a comparison to my post that apparently left paleoichneum shaken to the core. What I am trying to say, is that there is no equivalence between Clinton`s rhetoric and my ten very bland words. This is a storm in a tea cup.

The thing is they may have been inoffensive, if you had made it factual. If you had stated some, a section, portions etc of the democrats... That would have been factual. You didn't though and that's what makes yours statement false.

Spits the dummy?

What makes you think you "shook me to my core", rather then what actually happened (eg, real life happened and I had not responded to you yet)

I find it hard to make sense of your reply. I find it even harder to make sense of how a grown man would want to report someone to mod or admin, but that seems to be the way things go with you.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Donald Trumps Hillary.  |  Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2016 7:34 pm
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let's put a stop to this thread - it's not going anywhere fast

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