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Rory
Post  Post subject: Credit  |  Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:43 pm
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Why is it is frowned upon to want to achieve something for the credit? For an extrinsic motivator such as fame, glory, public approval, applause.

Why am I not allowed to want to be the first author on a Nature paper?

Most of the approval I have received from others in life has originated from my work, not from who I am. If you take away my right to seek approval through my work, then I will have nothing.

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PhDemon
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:06 am

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Who is telling you this is a bad thing? It was one of the main motivating drives behind my research career (along with just playing with cool toys and finding stuff out!) Any academic who is honest will admit it plays a large part in their decision making.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:59 am
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The attitude is implicit pretty well everywhere - but two things reminded me of it.

Yesterday I was on the Edinburgh train and I saw a man who I think may hsve been suffering from cancer or, if not, then from some other phyiscal or mental ailment. He was wearing a bandana on his head and was extremely thin. But the reason I noticed him was his eyes. I cannot fully capture the profundity of the expression in his striking blue eyes. A look of extreme concentration, or realisation - but it was more than that. I imagined it to be a contemplation of mortality by an especially powerful mind. And I felt a sense of scientific duty.

Then at night I was watching TED talks and I came across this one on the theme of home:



"If your intentions are to impress people or to get the big applause at the end then you are taking not giving" (04:30)

I'm tired of being told what I am and am not allowed to feel.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:27 pm
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this might be more an issue of confirmation bias than anything else

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:07 pm
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What do you mean?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:41 am
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you may not be accounting for examples that fail to conform to your preconception

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:29 am
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Well, true - and, in any case, it's only an opinion, so why do I care? Maybe because it speaks to my conscience?

I just don't see why you can't be both giving and taking if you both add something of value to society and do so for intrinsic and extrinsic reasons.

There seems to be a culture of treating as a criminal anybody who seeks validation from their community.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 2:25 pm
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I wonder if this has something to do with the culture in which you currently find yourself

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 4:22 pm
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Don't you experience the same?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:24 pm
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no, not really (not with any frequency or commonality, anyway)

I think there's generally a preference for things to be done altruistically, for the betterment of the larger group, as opposed to doing things for individual accolades and self-aggrandizement, but even altruism itself often has selfish drivers (to feel better and to be better accepted by the group and protect kin with shared genes, for example)

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:01 pm
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I know several paleontologists who are totally in it for the glory and getting to see their name in paper. I don't think they're wrong for that, I do find their egos to be a bit tedious to deal with at times though. Hell I was super excited to have a fossil I found used a paratype for a new species of Nuphar, and to see it in publication. In paleontology at least, the researchers get better grant opportunities if they have more valid publications with their names attached, so it seems many people are trying to publish papers with the sole intent of getting their name out there.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2016 8:04 pm
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Nothing is selfless. Even if you do a real good thing and fight to make sure no-one knows it was you, then aren't you really doing it for your self-perception?

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GiantEvil
Post  Post subject: Re: Credit  |  Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:44 pm
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"Take good care of yourself, someday the world may need you". - Rabbi Hillel

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