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marnixR
Post  Post subject: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 7:37 pm
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we now have witnessed the callousness of the Taliban in destroying giant Buddhas in Afghanistan, and the destruction of Roman sites by ISIS in Syria, but having recently visited Sicily and its Roman / Greek remains, I have the impression that the early Christians were just as callous : if a temple couldn't be used as a church then it was either destroyed outright, or used as quarry material to supply building material for other churches

looks like religions in their expansionary phase are so full of the one and only religion (i.e. theirs) that anything else can be destroyed in its path

can't wait for Islam to settle into a non-expansionary phase

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:10 am
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Some other religion will come and fill the power vacuum ;)

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:29 pm
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marnixR wrote:
we now have witnessed the callousness of the Taliban in destroying giant Buddhas in Afghanistan, and the destruction of Roman sites by ISIS in Syria, but having recently visited Sicily and its Roman / Greek remains, I have the impression that the early Christians were just as callous : if a temple couldn't be used as a church then it was either destroyed outright, or used as quarry material to supply building material for other churches

looks like religions in their expansionary phase are so full of the one and only religion (i.e. theirs) that anything else can be destroyed in its path

can't wait for Islam to settle into a non-expansionary phase

That's pretty much it. All the Christians out there decrying Islam for doing the very thing that their ancestors did to other religions is utter hypocrisy. Personally I keep hoping for the day that we let religion die. Although I know something else will replace it in the hearts and minds of those prone to zealotry.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:21 pm

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I'm a lot more worried about destruction of the natural world than any ancient ruins.

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I think humanity in general would be far better off once it sheds theistic religions-- even if non-theistic ones replace them.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:04 pm
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is scientology non-theistic ? if so, maybe i'm not too keen on them neither

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shlunka
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:49 am

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I thought this was just a thread for trash talking the .com site.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:26 am
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Boom, rimshot!

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:29 am
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To the OP, I'm reminded of a toddler throwing a tantrum or a chimp throwing feces. The destruction of these sites is about gaining attention and trying to force a response in others. They're basically trolling.

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SkinWalker
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:28 am
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Much of the recent destruction by ISIS is just so much pageantry. They want the world to be out-raged and notice them. All the while, the portable antiquities--or those non-portable antiquities that can be made portable by removing their heads (which are the portable parts), are sold to fund their activities. There are millions of Euros, Pounds, and Dollars moving through places like Romania and Bulgaria from London, Paris, etc. to the hands of dealers that are selling antiquities originating in Syria and Iraq.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:16 am
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iNow wrote:
To the OP, I'm reminded of a toddler throwing a tantrum or a chimp throwing feces. The destruction of these sites is about gaining attention and trying to force a response in others. They're basically trolling.


that may well be the motivation today, but surely not in early christian times ?

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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:34 am
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I can empathize with a desire to destroy monuments of conquerors. Suppose the nazis had erected hulking statues of aryan demigods in France, would we blame the French for resenting those? One might argue that the Chinese imposition on Afghanistan is forgivably ancient history... yet is it not nobler to feel one's identity in the long view of history?

How should modern Incas regard a monument to the slaughterer de Soto? After all, that was half a millennia ago. Do we demand they continue to tolerate it, because we think it's an artful statue?


I suppose I'm earning flak for humanizing the bad guys.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:57 am
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marnixR wrote:
that may well be the motivation today, but surely not in early christian times ?

A very good point, indeed. Perhaps it relates to their quest to attract others to their cause, to convert and evangelize by destroying "false idols" and by eliminating symbols of belief not 100% aligned with their own core self-identifying worldview?

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shlunka
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:00 pm

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Pong wrote:
I can empathize with a desire to destroy monuments of conquerors. Suppose the nazis had erected hulking statues of aryan demigods in France, would we blame the French for resenting those? One might argue that the Chinese imposition on Afghanistan is forgivably ancient history... yet is it not nobler to feel one's identity in the long view of history?

How should modern Incas regard a monument to the slaughterer de Soto? After all, that was half a millennia ago. Do we demand they continue to tolerate it, because we think it's an artful statue?


I suppose I'm earning flak for humanizing the bad guys.
There are also plenty of statues to known slave-supporters and several Andrew Jackson statues around the states and at least one Custer statue. I can only imagine animosity felt by native Americans towards these, and perhaps African Americans to a lesser degree (as the slave ownership was not endemic to nor proliferated by many of the statues, exceptions being certain civil war generals).

I think most of the public would come to accept Nazi statues in the same way as they've come to accept these, time passed, thinking evolved, and the statues were the artistic vision of a sculptor and the commendation of the client, not an ongoing incitement of bigotry and hate.

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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:45 pm
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as far as i can see, the destruction brought about by early christians was to take away all traces of "pagan" evidence - if the evidence is destroyed, then that's one you have over on previous holders of your top position, and hardens your claim that you're the only REAL religion

after all, if your competitor was that tough, you shouldn't be able to destroy his holy sites, should you ?

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:59 pm

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marnixR wrote:
as far as i can see, the destruction brought about by early christians was to take away all traces of "pagan" evidence - if the evidence is destroyed, then that's one you have over on previous holders of your top position, and hardens your claim that you're the only REAL religion

after all, if your competitor was that tough, you shouldn't be able to destroy his holy sites, should you ?



Think you're exactly right. It has little to nothing to do with Western attributes we often incorrectly attribute to religious extremist, such as attention getting.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:28 pm
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I concur. That explanation seems most parsimonious.

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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: destruction of ancient sites  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:41 pm
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In some cases, they only wanted the bricks. Steal a bit off the pyramid or parthenon to build your boat dock. Probably why road cobbles are the first to go.


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