FAQ
It is currently Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:00 pm


Author Message
Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 12:56 am

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:17 am
Posts: 198
Location: US Pacific NorthWest

Offline
National Science Academy assembled a team to review science literature and prepare report about safety and environmental impact of Genetically Modified Organisms. From both perspectives (and others) GMO were found to be generally safe and good for the environment. In the press conference there were a few examples of deleterious effects, but they were narrow in scope, should be viewed as unique and not affect the general conclusion.


General News Article: http://www.engadget.com/2016/05/17/nati ... o-be-safe/

Report and Vid of press conference and presentation about the report: http://nas-sites.org/ge-crops/2016/04/2 ... t-release/


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 1:09 am
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5500
Location: Austin, Texas

Offline
Seems consistent with all other evidence I've seen. Hard to believe this is still an issue.

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 8:02 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
Before reading that I'll declare my skepticism of the logic behind "good for the environment". Because most GM crops are modified to resist herbicide, the deal being that farmers can't profitably grow these without multiple applications of herbicide. The crop and the herbicide are inseparable. And my cynical suspicion is the authors leave herbicide out of the equation. That would give us the same logic as "guns don't kill people." Well, let's see how crops requiring massive amounts of herbicide - that by definition kills plants - can be "good for the environment"...


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Mon Jun 06, 2016 9:12 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
Okay. I learned that since introducing herbicide resistant crops, application volumes have gone up. Also (and again news to me) "In many locations, some weeds
have evolved resistance". Which explains why farmers must use more and more herbicide. Here we're practically speaking of the herbicide RoundUp and its counterpart crops named RoundUp-Ready. Is this vicious cycle bad for the environment? Here's the weaselly answer: "However, total kilograms of herbicide applied per hectare is an uninformative metric... because the environmental and health hazards of different herbicides vary, the relationship of kilograms of herbicide applied per hectare and risk is poor." In other words, they don't know, and they won't suggest any volume of herbicide might be bad for the environment.

Seems biased. Not in the data, but the way it's presented. Like glass half-empty or half-full: When someone uses contorted language to consistently portray the glass half-full, their bias is evident.

Pop quiz: If I say "Reservations regarding NSA conclusions declined when first reading their paper, but the decreases have not generally been sustained," what am I really saying, in plain english?

Because that's the sort of glass-half-full contortion they employ. I pasted their own words.


BTW I support GM crops, apart from the single problem of herbicide dependency and overuse. But I despise weasel science!


Top
paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 6:13 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 404

Offline
Pong wrote:
Okay. I learned that since introducing herbicide resistant crops, application volumes have gone up. Also (and again news to me) "In many locations, some weeds
have evolved resistance". Which explains why farmers must use more and more herbicide. Here we're practically speaking of the herbicide RoundUp and its counterpart crops named RoundUp-Ready. Is this vicious cycle bad for the environment? Here's the weaselly answer: "However, total kilograms of herbicide applied per hectare is an uninformative metric... because the environmental and health hazards of different herbicides vary, the relationship of kilograms of herbicide applied per hectare and risk is poor." In other words, they don't know, and they won't suggest any volume of herbicide might be bad for the environment.

Seems biased. Not in the data, but the way it's presented. Like glass half-empty or half-full: When someone uses contorted language to consistently portray the glass half-full, their bias is evident.

Pop quiz: If I say "Reservations regarding NSA conclusions declined when first reading their paper, but the decreases have not generally been sustained," what am I really saying, in plain english?

Because that's the sort of glass-half-full contortion they employ. I pasted their own words.


BTW I support GM crops, apart from the single problem of herbicide dependency and overuse. But I despise weasel science!

you have chosen to looks at such a narrow section of the Gen mod organisims out there why?

where are you getting the herbacide volume data from?
Have you read the paper yet?

_________________
The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Tue Jun 07, 2016 10:17 pm
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
Yeah I read it. Posted my prediction and then checked it.

My only reservation regarding GMOs is where built-in herbicide dependence may lead to excessive use of herbicide down the road. So my view is "narrow" yes, because I'm totally behind GM crops in all other respects. Let's not make a two-sided battle out of this.

Herbacide volume data is in the linked report.


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:22 pm
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
*Silence*


So no one else is ashamed by National Science Academy closing ranks to weasel-up a partisan report in our favour? How low shall we go?


Top
paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 3:30 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 404

Offline
Silence due to the very narrow view you took, that you used to conclude the entire paper should be ignored, and that the data was incorrect.

_________________
The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 12:37 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
paleoichneum wrote:
Silence due to the very narrow view you took, that you used to conclude the entire paper should be ignored, and that the data was incorrect.
*Ahem*
Pong wrote:
Seems biased. Not in the data, but the way it's presented.

In all our years, Paleoichneum, every post you've made in my direction has been to put me down, unless I argue on your contrived terms. Typically you put words in my mouth (or ascribe thoughts to my mind!) that contradict what I've said explicitly - like above. You're so sure I must be wrong somehow. Sometimes you are fun to play with, just to see how low you will go. But I am not a troll by nature. Maybe someday you'll quit attacking, and consider we might have common ground for discussion...


Top
paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 11:26 pm
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:23 am
Posts: 404

Offline
Pong wrote:
paleoichneum wrote:
Silence due to the very narrow view you took, that you used to conclude the entire paper should be ignored, and that the data was incorrect.
*Ahem*
Pong wrote:
Seems biased. Not in the data, but the way it's presented.

In all our years, Paleoichneum, every post you've made in my direction has been to put me down, unless I argue on your contrived terms. Typically you put words in my mouth (or ascribe thoughts to my mind!) that contradict what I've said explicitly - like above. You're so sure I must be wrong somehow. Sometimes you are fun to play with, just to see how low you will go. But I am not a troll by nature. Maybe someday you'll quit attacking, and consider we might have common ground for discussion...


I dont attack you, ask ask for clarification when assertions are made, and I ask for citations when those assertions are not backed up.

you have a long history of making sweeping generalizations of things (eg sexuallity is default bisexual) and not having anything but your own opinion as the backing for that.

_________________
The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.


Top
Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:59 pm

Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:17 am
Posts: 198
Location: US Pacific NorthWest

Offline
Similar to the NSA but more pointed letter's to Greenpeace been written by 100 laureates urging them to follow the science rather than the anti-GMO hype.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/spe ... mo-stance/


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:03 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
Thanks, Lynx_Fox.

The points in the Letter are all true and, IMHO, campaign organizer Richard Roberts scores bulls-eye when he said, "Greenpeace initially, and then some of their allies, deliberately went out of their way to scare people. It was a way for them to raise money for their cause." I quit Greenpeace in 1990 when I saw it becoming such a monster, and I was asked to ...yep "scare people" sums it up.

On the other hand, the Greenpeace reply (update to the article, June 30th) is pretty good. It clarifies its arguments against Golden Rice. Valid misgivings the Letter does not address.

So what we have here is a debate between the Nobel folk (championing World Health Organization) and Greenpeace. Maybe all groups can learn from each other?


***

@Paleoichneum
Pong wrote:
Typically you put words in my mouth
paleoichneum wrote:
you have a long history of making sweeping generalizations of things (eg sexuallity is default bisexual)
Yeah, like that. :roll:

I'm tired of correcting and explaining each time you mangle what I say or believe. From now, in response to your habitual strawman tactic I'll demand proof I actually said or believed such-and-such. The onus will be on you to back your claims.


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:26 am
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5500
Location: Austin, Texas

Offline
Would appreciate if we could remain focused on he actual thread topic of GMOs and not the personal nonsense that bores and annoys the rest of us.

To that end, I find Greenpeace's golden rice concerns to be wholly without merit and largely debunked many times over. I find this even in the face of the clarifications referenced by Pong above.

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:44 am
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Sat May 28, 2016 2:53 am
Posts: 219

Offline
That's surprising. Golden rice amounts to coerced vitamin supplement. Even WHO admits that ensuring compliance by integrating a supplement with staple diet, may be something of a rights violation. And I thought you'd said before vitamin supplements did little good. Didn't you?

Are you now endorsing vitamin supplements?

The Greenpeace reply is short enough to quote here:
Wilhelmina Pelegrina, Campaigner at Greenpeace Southeast Asia wrote:
"Accusations that anyone is blocking genetically engineered ‘Golden’ rice are false. ‘Golden’ rice has failed as a solution and isn’t currently available for sale, even after more than 20 years of research. As admitted by the International Rice Research Institute, it has not been proven to actually address Vitamin A Deficiency. So to be clear, we are talking about something that doesn’t even exist.

Corporations are overhyping ‘Golden’ Rice to pave the way for global approval of other more profitable genetically engineered crops. This costly experiment has failed to produce results for the last 20 years and diverted attention from methods that already work. Rather than invest in this overpriced public relations exercise, we need to address malnutrition through a more diverse diet, equitable access to food and eco-agriculture."

...(apparently there is more to the reply, not quoted in the news article)

On alternative solutions:

"The only guaranteed solution to fix malnutrition is a diverse healthy diet. Providing people with real food based on ecological agriculture not only addresses malnutrition, but is also a scaleable solution to adapt to climate change. We’ve documented communities across the Philippines that continue to express concerns about using GE golden rice as a solution. It is irresponsible to impose GE golden rice as a quick remedy to people on the front lines and who do not welcome it, particularly when there are safe and effective options already available.

Greenpeace Philippines is already working with NGO partners and farmers in the Philippines to boost climate resiliency (4). There’s a real chance here for governments and the philanthropic community to support these endeavours by investing in climate-resilient ecological agriculture and empowering farmers to access a balanced and nutritious diet, rather than pouring money down the drain for GE ‘Golden’ rice."

While I won't throw partisan support behind those words, I'll grant there are some valid observations and arguments above.

Inow, why is it "wholly without merit and largely debunked many times over"? Could you be more specific? What on Earth does "ecological agriculture" mean?


Top
iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:39 am
User avatar
Original Member
Original Member

Joined: Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:40 pm
Posts: 5500
Location: Austin, Texas

Offline
Let me clarify. My core position is that Greenpeace (and a great many others) has been sorely wrong on GMOs for a long time now and I agree with the conclusions of the NSA cited in the OP.

As for golden rice specifically, I find their concerns exaggerated and even overblown and feel they are doing more harm than good. I tend to agree that other food sources are better, that this product has faults, but in parallel recognize that for millions of humans on this earth ANY food is better than ZERO food.

This is my opinion. I don't feel strongly about golden rice either way, so feel free to arrive at a different perspective on this if that's your prerogative.

What I do feel strongly about, however, is the stupidity and harm being done by the broader anti-GMO campaign and that specifically is what drove my tone.

If you feel this is not how my position came across in previous posts above, then I apologize for being lazy and imprecise in how I presented it and request you accept the clarification provided just now here so we can move on.

_________________
iNow

"[Time] is one of those concepts that is profoundly resistant to a simple definition." ~C. Sagan


Top
shlunka
Post  Post subject: Re: NSA report concludes no evidence that GMOs are unsafe  |  Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:50 pm

Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:55 pm
Posts: 54
Location: Virginia, US

Offline
Not a valuable addition to the further discussion of this thread, but I would like to add a personal anecdote. I grow a garden (small, 20' x 35'), and also have herbs growing all over the yard in large ceramic pots. The harvest lasts several months (different maturity times), and of all the picked vegetables and spices almost all get sold at the farmer's market while I buy considerably cheaper plants at the grocery store for my own consumption.

An odd exception to the GMO community seems to be peaches. Peaches can't be regenerated from a somatic cell IIRC, but maybe with some transgenic work (maybe apricots? Expelled facial hair? I have no idea.) the generation of neo-peaches (autocorrects to bro-peaches, conjuring images of Mario and Luigi Brexiting from the bro-code of bros before hoes). Would be made easier through hybrid work.

Er, the point! The point I was trying to make is that perhaps non-GMO operations could provide substantial contributions by shifting their focus to peach farms, which already produce crops bounteous enough to break the limbs off the trees (honestly, I don't know if any of my trees could handle more peaches when the frost doesn't affect them), have a decent incubation period after being picked, provide nutrients AND the pits are easily cultivated (with only a brief educational lecture on planting them) into growing trees.

It's all speculation on my behalf, but it's an idea.

_________________
John Hancock was here.


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Print view

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
Jump to:   
cron

Delete all board cookies | The team | All times are UTC


This free forum is proudly hosted by ProphpBB | phpBB software | Report Abuse | Privacy