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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 9:47 pm

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Echoing another set of studies about ten years ago, another meta study finds that quite different than the insurance led tables that driven many of us crazy the past decades, being mildly obese actually has the lowest morbidity.

As oversimplified as it is, being a bit overweight isn't' a bad thing at all-- just don't' continue to pile on the pounds.


https://www.sciencenews.org/article/hea ... overweight


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 10:28 pm
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Fascinating. Is there a sweet spot, a threshold beyond which getting fatter leads to more harm than good? I clearly need to dig into these a bit more closely to see how the weight groups were divided.

EDIT: Looks like BMI around 27. That seems high. Now I really need to dig more deeply into this.

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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 13, 2016 11:55 pm

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Part of it seems to be that the diseases associated with overweight can be better managed now. I wonder if that says anything about the quality of life of the people who can live a long time but have to follow long term treatment for their diseases. Are there serious side effects to the medications?

If we are talking about a long length of " poor quality" life , that would raise questions.

But perhaps there are actual positive benefits to being a little overweight if we can discount the diseases that may or may not occur.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 12:06 am
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Good point. Seems less related to BMI and more related to being able to treat the negative downstream impacts of being overweight.

Quote:
While some might misinterpret the study to mean “you can eat as much as you like,” this is not what the findings suggest, Nordestgaard says. Rather, the results indicate that people who are moderately overweight might not need to worry as much as they had in the past. That might be because better treatments are now available for high blood pressure, high cholesterol and other risk factors for heart disease, Nordestgaard speculates. “So maybe you can be overweight if you have [these conditions] treated.” But the study was not designed to address whether improved heart health care actually caused “healthy” BMI values to creep up over time.

It’s also unclear whether the results apply to other ethnic groups. A substantial fraction of Asians, for instance, develop type 2 diabetes and heart disease despite having BMIs lower than the existing cutoff point for being overweight.


At the same time, Lynx' point is that these folks live longer even than lower BMI individuals. To me, that negates the argument that this is all about managing high blood pressure, etc. The point above about lower BMI Asians also seems to speak to the potential,flaws in that particular suggestion.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 2:40 pm

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I wonder how much of our geriatric population weighed in on the study as well. I recently become an emergency medical tech, and see many older folks who due to various medical issues sometimes go days without eating-- a bit extra fat to start is an advantage for them. Many of the broken hipped emergencies are very low body fat as well--probably because they lack the protective layer to absorb the physical shock. Fractured hips alone have a surprisingly high mortality.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 3:52 pm
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One would imagine those effects would be largely age-dependent and could be filtered out. Since this is a meta analysis (and not the first) suggesting the effect, I'm inclined to believe that benefits to the elderly are at the margins. It seems too consistent across studies IMO to be explained by geriatric effects alone.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:50 pm
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Has social class been controlled for?

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:10 pm
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My assumption is yes since the effect is consistent even in the meta analysis, but haven't yet verified for myself. What effect(s) do you think class or SES might have on the results?

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 9:56 pm
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Well the wealthy outlive the poor - for many reasons

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:44 am
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Yet the poor tend to be more obese, so that would seem to contradict the findings here.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 5:12 am
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Mild obesity? I haven't read the study to be fair.

I would expect the wealthy might be overweight or slightly obese because they can afford a lifestyle of excess.

It depends how poor you're talking. The truly poor can't afford the level of snacks and other foodstuffs required to maintain mild obesity.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:41 pm
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Recall that it's not just one study, but instead a meta-analysis of several studies, and not the first of its kind to arrive at this conclusion. It's for that reason that I'm reluctant to believe things like age and income haven't been adequately controlled.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:23 pm

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Rory wrote:
Mild obesity? I haven't read the study to be fair.

I would expect the wealthy might be overweight or slightly obese because they can afford a lifestyle of excess.

It depends how poor you're talking. The truly poor can't afford the level of snacks and other foodstuffs required to maintain mild obesity.



Hmm.

Cost per energy density is lowest among grains and sugary snacks. (see for example http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2954450/). And this is without a doubt a rather large component of the SES relationship with rates of obesity and overall health.


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geordief
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 5:49 pm

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Unless Rory is referring to populations in very poor countries rather than the poor in Europe ,the USA or comparable areas.

Obesity is only now becoming a worldwide phenomenon I have heard .

When I was growing up the problem seemed to be that populations were going without enough food and only now does there appear to be less of a problem in that regard.

Do the populations in some countries not have easy dietary access to sugary snacks and what we perhaps loosely term "junk food" or have they not yet acquired the habits of using them ?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 6:21 pm
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That's a good clarification. The poor in the west tend to be obese because they're forced to eat processed foods and fast foods and quick burgers, etc. whereas the poor in other non-advanced nations tend to be significantly underweight and malnourished due to lack of any food. We must be clear on the area being described when referencing these items and I was (without realizing it above) focused solely on the west.

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 5:40 am

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Think it's a good point as well. Also probably a fair statement that the related studies applied to developed nations.

As an aside, even the US, before the creation of robust social problems during the late 1960s-early 1970s, near starvation was quite common in rural areas-- the well publicized series of photo and video of Alpilation and other rural areas were instrumental in getting support for those programs. It's relevant because most of the insurance tables were also created before high calorie food was widely available (in the US). Today almost everyone gets sufficient calories, but quality nutritious food is still in short supply many rural and inner city communities.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Wed May 18, 2016 6:13 am
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Quite right. The problem of food deserts coupled with high childhood poverty.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/artic ... n-the-u-s/
Quote:
Determining the exact number of children living in poverty can depend on what Census calculation you go by. More than 16 million children, or roughly one in five, were living in poverty in 2011, according to the U.S. Census Bureau’s official poverty measure (pdf). That is higher than any other age group. Among 18- to 64-year-olds, the poverty rate was 13.7 percent, while among seniors the rate was 8.7 percent.
(...)
The longer a child lives in poverty, the tougher it can be for them to climb out later in life. According to an analysis (pdf) by Columbia University’s National Center for Children in Poverty, 45 percent of people who spent at least half of their childhood in poverty were poor at age 35. Among those who spent less than half of their childhood in poverty, just 8 percent were poor at age 35.

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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 12:04 am

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iNow wrote:
EDIT: Looks like BMI around 27. That seems high. Now I really need to dig more deeply into this.

BMI of 27 is just overweight, not yet obese . . .

18.5 --- underweight
25 ----- overweight
30 ----- obese
40 ----- morbidly obese

When my BMI gets up to 25, I start dieting. I feel real good at BMI of about 23.


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Wed May 25, 2016 10:19 pm

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Americans think that if "Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest", then being REALLY, REALLY fat might be better yet:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/health/am ... index.html
Quote:
Americans are fatter than ever, CDC finds


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plusminusgravity
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 6:23 pm
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Snafuperman wrote:
Americans think that if "Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest", then being REALLY, REALLY fat might be better yet:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/25/health/am ... index.html
Quote:
Americans are fatter than ever, CDC finds


Yeah...
It's obvious that "gyms don't work" or wait...

Could it be that we don't work? What is it then
that really causes fear of sustaining a fit &
healthy lifestyle?

There's been some crazy studies about how the skin and
our brain is extremely related in terms of health.

They said the skin is a good indicator of a health brain.

Dr. Daniel Amen said that we shouldn't judge people because
they may literally have a degenerative part of their brain
that causes them to have zero comprehension of their state
of health.

What's your take from all that?

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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:36 pm

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plusminusgravity wrote:
What's your take from all that?

People are fat because they eat too much and/or don't exercise enough. It's really that simple. No need to overthink it. :roll: Meh.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:38 pm
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Sometimes despite the best of diets and heavy exercise genes still prevent folks from being slim.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/healt ... -loss.html

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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 7:57 pm

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That's BS. Genes? Ha ha! But fat people can latch onto that and say in a whining voice "Look, see this study. I can't help it. It's my genes." What they may have is the "whining gene". :mrgreen:

It's scientifically impossible to stay fat if caloric intake is lowered enough . . . even without exercise.

But never fear! I also saw a study that showed that the rest of world's populations, those that can afford it, are getting fatter also. Yeah!


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 8:02 pm

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As far as how fat can healthy people be? How should people look? It's simple. Take a look at your average world-wide soccer player. That's what the human body should look like.


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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Thu May 26, 2016 9:16 pm

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Snafuperman wrote:
As far as how fat can healthy people be? How should people look? It's simple. Take a look at your average world-wide soccer player. That's what the human body should look like.

Well I'm doomed then!


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:32 am

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Snafuperman wrote:
As far as how fat can healthy people be? How should people look? It's simple. Take a look at your average world-wide soccer player. That's what the human body should look like.


That's pretty silly. Soccer players are phenotype of one in a tens of million humans towards the size, agility, and oxygen use efficiency to be competitive in one quite narrow form of human activity--namely playing soccer--and even then only to young adults. While it's unique capabilities could be applied to a rather broad range of other requirements, it also at a disadvantage for many other activities, such as endurance swimming, fighting off a bear with a hand weapon and perhaps, due to excesses of use, might not even result in optimum longevity.


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:36 am

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Here is the American ideal of an athlete. You know, a steroid-pumped guy who has to go to the sidelines to get oxygen after running 50 meters. :mrgreen:

He'll also probably die of a heart-attack 10 years after he retires.

Image


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:40 am

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
That's pretty silly. Soccer players are phenotype of one in a tens of million humans towards the size, agility, and oxygen use efficiency to be competitive in one quite narrow form of human activity--namely playing soccer--and even then only to young adults. While it's unique capabilities could be applied to a rather broad range of other requirements, it also at a disadvantage for many other activities, such as endurance swimming, fighting off a bear with a hand weapon and perhaps, due to excesses of use, might not even result in optimum longevity.

I'd bet on a pro soccer player in a fight with any normal fat guy.


Last edited by Snafuperman on Fri May 27, 2016 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 12:49 am

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Snafuperman wrote:
I'd bet on a pro soccer player in a fight with any normal fat guy.

Heck, I'd bet on a pro woman soccer player in a fight with the average fat guys I see walking the streets.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:32 am

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Snafuperman wrote:
Here is the American ideal of an athlete. You know, a steroid-pumped guy who has to go to the sidelines to get oxygen after running 50 meters. :mrgreen:

Not sure what your point is other than perhaps being a bit trolling.

But I'll add the meta-studies clearly don't favor the extremely low body of professional soccer players, though I would agree other studies suggest endurance athletes usually have a pretty high quality of life if they continue to remain active into their later years.


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:40 am

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
. . . though I would agree other studies suggest endurance athletes usually have a pretty high quality of life if they continue to remain active into their later years.

Footballers are more than endurance athletes. Unlike distance runners, they have excellent speed and strength. Obviously, you've never been around real soccer players -- they are not to be trifled with. You almost never see them "ballooning up" after they retire.


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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:46 am

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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Echoing another set of studies about ten years ago, another meta study finds that quite different than the insurance led tables that driven many of us crazy the past decades, being mildly obese actually has the lowest morbidity.

Do you realize that "mildly obese" is a BMI in the low 30s. That is positively frickin' FAT!!! Not just overweight, but FAT! That would mean putting 40+ MORE pounds on my 6'2" frame. No way.

Those "insurance led tables" that you talk about were probably the same ones used while I was in the USAF, and I considered them pretty accurate back then and I still consider the BMI ratings (which are almost identical to the old USAF charts) pretty accurate.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 2:55 am
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Snafuperman wrote:
You almost never see them "ballooning up" after they retire.

How are you controlling for activity level and diet post-retirement? Do they immediately become sedentary or do they remain active recreationally?

Also, request you please lighten up on the fat shaming. It's like finger nails on chalkboards and there are for more precise less judgmental ways of getting your intended point across.

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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:00 am

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iNow wrote:
. . . fat shaming.

I had to look that up. :o Good one!


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:13 am
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Kindly please take my request to heart now that you know to what I was referring.

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Snafuperman
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 3:20 am

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iNow wrote:
Kindly please take my request to heart now that you know to what I was referring.

It's a strange new world. Fat shaming? Hmm. OK. It seems overly PC to me but . . . OK.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the healthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 5:14 am

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Given most serious health problems and death happen long after athletes and military members retire... that population wouldn't have much to do with the meta=studies of BSI and morbidity.

There's also at least some evidence that athletes DO not necessarily maintain health lifestyles after they retire. In this study, they just as often become sedentary later in life.

"Although current NCAA Division I student athletes demonstrated significant, clinically important differences in exercise behavior compared with nonathletes, no group differences were evident later in life. Irrespective of collegiate athletic status, "

http://sph.sagepub.com/content/early/20 ... 8114534813


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astromark2014
Post  Post subject: Re: Another major study finds mild obesity the hI ealthiest  |  Posted: Fri May 27, 2016 8:23 am
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I have little right to argue this as I carry a little too much mass around, and am not tall enough to hide it well.
However it pleases me to read what we have known for years. It's a very good idea to have comfortable reserves of biomass..
Healthy is not just a stealth like sports profile. Not so much as to strain the hart but enough to keep you warm in winter..

More importantly to learn a lifestyle to happiness. Be it, spread it. It works. I have no shame in a little condition. :)

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