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Rory
Post  Post subject: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:52 pm
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I had the misfortune to encounter the "7 ways to seduce a woman" type literature.

Why would anybody prefer to have only sexual intimacy with a partner, rather than sexual and emotional intimacy?

Presumably, if these guys were to be offered either a sexual partner or a sexual and emotional partner capable of providing comfort, companionship and love, they would choose the former. Why?

That's like ordering a meal for the taste only and requesting that it have no nutritional value.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:35 pm
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I suppose it depends on the person. People have sex for different reasons. Those reasons vary over time. They have different needs. Those needs also vary over time. Finding a single person who can satisfy all needs is clearly ideal, but seems unlikely. Different strategies yield different success rates. Most people try to employ the most successful strategies.

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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:14 pm
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I've had friends that went through "man-whore" stages where all they sought out were one night stands with the most attractive women they could get into bed with them. For them it had to do with having a previous relationship that emotionally damaged them more than they were willing to admit so they tried to ignore their emotions by distracting themselves with lots of sex.

Basically they desired intimacy, but they weren't ready for emotional intimacy, so they went for sexual intimacy instead.

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wegs
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:32 pm
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For many people, sexual intimacy is ''easier'' than emotional intimacy. A person can be pretty mechanical during sex, and still feel a sense of closeness. But, emotional intimacy requires one to open himself/herself up and become vulnerable. I went through a phase of not being able to be emotionally available to men, but worked on myself and got past it. I've never been a sleep around type, not sure how people do that, and don't feel depressed. Seems like a risky way to live life, and a false way to think you're gaining intimacy with others.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 12:48 am
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I've always seen the loose sleeping around approach as most commonly a form of self-medicating. Sadness and anxiety can often be hard to escape and the sexual activity and climax can be a temporary respite full of happy brain chemical release...That one thing to look forward to or that momentary distraction from an otherwise chronic pain.

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wegs
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 1:45 am
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iNow wrote:
I've always seen the loose sleeping around approach as most commonly a form of self-medicating. Sadness and anxiety can often be hard to escape and the sexual activity and climax can be a temporary respite full of happy brain chemical release...That one thing to look forward to or that momentary distraction from an otherwise chronic pain.

I agree with your take on that, it seems to be the case for many people who sleep around. I don't judge, everyone handles stress differently. It's just a risky way to handle it. :|


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 11:58 pm
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wegs wrote:
iNow wrote:
I've always seen the loose sleeping around approach as most commonly a form of self-medicating. Sadness and anxiety can often be hard to escape and the sexual activity and climax can be a temporary respite full of happy brain chemical release...That one thing to look forward to or that momentary distraction from an otherwise chronic pain.

I agree with your take on that, it seems to be the case for many people who sleep around. I don't judge, everyone handles stress differently. It's just a risky way to handle it. :|

Definitely risky but I had a friend who went through a messy split with a girlfriend of five years and spent about a month sleeping with random women from Tinder, he was having trouble sleeping in the bed they shared and with sleeping alone. Not even sure he had sex with all of them (a good portion for sure at least).

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Tue May 17, 2016 2:22 am

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"Presumably, if these guys were to be offered either a sexual partner or a sexual and emotional partner capable of providing comfort, companionship and love, they would choose the former. Why?"

Why not? A one night stand is fun, sexually satisfying, for little investment of energy or complicated commitments. In a modern context there's relatively little risk.

But we can view this deeper as well: From a evolutionary point of view, there's probably a strong predisposition for humans (and other social species) to sometimes adopt this behavior as a valid reproductive strategy. For males the connection is rather obvious, with opportunity to reproduce with multiple women--for women, though far more limited in reproductive rate, it's a genetic opportunity to mate with what's perceived as a superior partner and have an offspring that will still be supported by a the emotionally bound partner.


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:22 am
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I think the generations before the Baby Boomers had it right when they said "making love". Some reason in the 1960's people decided that was a euphemism for copulating. But it's not. One can literally make love.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:24 pm

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Pong wrote:
I think the generations before the Baby Boomers had it right when they said "making love". Some reason in the 1960's people decided that was a euphemism for copulating. But it's not. One can literally make love.

Not so much. While that might have been society's self image as how it thought things "should be", it was wildly off from how things really were--which was teenage pregnancies at all time high during the 1950's, more than a quarter of men losing their virginity to farm animals (how romantic), a tremendously high rates of incest and child sexual abuse etc. and other "shocking" revelations.

Image


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:46 pm
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Lynx_Fox wrote:
Pong wrote:
I think the generations before the Baby Boomers had it right when they said "making love". Some reason in the 1960's people decided that was a euphemism for copulating. But it's not. One can literally make love.

Not so much. While that might have been society's self image as how it thought things "should be", it was wildly off from how things really were--which was teenage pregnancies at all time high during the 1950's, more than a quarter of men losing their virginity to farm animals (how romantic), a tremendously high rates of incest and child sexual abuse etc. and other "shocking" revelations.

Image

Keep in mind that (I believe) Lynx is commenting on the US, while Pong is in NZ so may have a different view / different historical data and perspective.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:19 pm
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iNow wrote:
Lynx_Fox wrote:
Pong wrote:
I think the generations before the Baby Boomers had it right when they said "making love". Some reason in the 1960's people decided that was a euphemism for copulating. But it's not. One can literally make love.

Not so much. While that might have been society's self image as how it thought things "should be", it was wildly off from how things really were--which was teenage pregnancies at all time high during the 1950's, more than a quarter of men losing their virginity to farm animals (how romantic), a tremendously high rates of incest and child sexual abuse etc. and other "shocking" revelations.

Image

Keep in mind that (I believe) Lynx is commenting on the US, while Pong is in NZ so may have a different view / different historical data and perspective.

Im pretty sure Pong is located somewhere in British Columbia, but I may be mistaken

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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:28 pm

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iNow wrote:
Quote:
Image

Keep in mind that (I believe) Lynx is commenting on the US, while Pong is in NZ so may have a different view / different historical data and perspective.


That is true, but this is a common pattern in developed nations. NZ shows nearly identical teenage pregnancy rates as the US.
http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_sta ... in-nz.aspx


My simple assertion is this suggest that there's been no significant difference between lust and love, through the decades, despite our rose colored views of the past. And why should there be? Sexual drive and mating behaviors is at the bedrock of most social mammals--humans included.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:37 pm
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Point well made, and I tend to agree.

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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:13 am
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Yeah I'm coming from Vancouver, Canada, AKA Lotusland.

I agree with Lynx_Fox 100%.

My point is that sex makes love (as does necking and making eyes and so forth), and that is how the term was originally used. A couple could "make love" in a restaurant. At some point before my time it became a euphemism for screwing (in my part of the world). And I think that change in perception or values corresponds with the theory people may (or should) disconnect love from sex.

I think much of the gravy of human reproduction - the fun aspect - serves to bond and effectively marry reproductive partners. In that case I expect sexual partners are also manufacturing endorphins and attachment hormones like oxytocin i.e. manufacturing love. Love may be so base. Then it is unnatural to restrain or delude oneself from loving a sexual partner. Less pleasant too.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 2:35 pm

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^(like)^

Thanks Pong, I better understand your original statement now and agree. Thanks for the clarification.


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:24 am
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I'm thinking if we can generalize about a demographic (the Baby Boomers) we can test individuals today for the same conditions and attitudes. The insight could answer Rory's question.

So why did that generation adopt a theory that sex and love are easily exclusive? Well, what do we know about them?

We know that they were relatively well-loved (see Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care). So perhaps as teens and young adults they felt they had a lifetime supply of love already with their parents. All that's missing is sex.

How's that hypothesis? Should be pretty easy to test it. Correlate parental affection with preference for capricious sex.


Maybe I'm misreading the Boomers altogether?


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:47 am
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Quote:
We know that they were relatively well-loved (see Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care). So perhaps as teens and young adults they felt they had a lifetime supply of love already with their parents. All that's missing is sex.


Yet it's those who lack parental love during childhood that struggle to accept love from a partner in adulthood. Your hypothesis would suggest, then, that nobody was seeking love?

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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:55 am
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After posting it occurred to me the case of sex addicts might get mixed up in this. I'm talking about the mainstream, that as a society approved the theory healthy sane people may enjoy sex without attachment. Yes Rory, my hypothesis postulates the mainstream of teens and young adults felt less need for love than earlier generations. But with undiminished libido. I'm not talking about cases where people are actually damaged and become nympos or whatever. Although I'm sure sex addicts viewed themselves as champions of the general trend, and media portrayed them as embodiments. But there's a difference between feeling loved enough you don't seek it, even from a sex partner; and seeking sex because you can't give or receive love.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 1:11 pm

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Pong wrote:
I'm thinking if we can generalize about a demographic (the Baby Boomers) we can test individuals today for the same conditions and attitudes. The insight could answer Rory's question.

So why did that generation adopt a theory that sex and love are easily exclusive? Well, what do we know about them?

We know that they were relatively well-loved (see Dr. Spock's Baby and Child Care). So perhaps as teens and young adults they felt they had a lifetime supply of love already with their parents. All that's missing is sex.

How's that hypothesis? Should be pretty easy to test it. Correlate parental affection with preference for capricious sex.


Maybe I'm misreading the Boomers altogether?


I think you are, or I'm still misreading you a bit. While I agree that one can "make love" as in behaviors associated with courtships, sharing and physical contact to include sex are capable of building an enduring loving relation-- I don't think there's been any difference whatsoever between generations. Casual low commitment sex for adventure and physical sexual relief was very common in our grandparents generation as it probably is now; if there's a difference, it's that less available birth control, fewer options for abortion, and less mobility more often resulted in marriage, often at quite young age. Compounding the problem and part of the changes for baby boomers, is sexual maturity a few years younger (it's dropped from about 14 to 12 for girls) than it was for their grandparents (mostly due to better nutrition).

Not sure where to go from here, since it seems you don't want to bring in sexual abuse, for which there's clear scientific evidence that it impacts people's perceptions of love and general acceptance.


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:28 pm
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We disagree. I think mainstream attitudes have changed dramatically over generations. You think they haven't. In your history the moon landings did happen, but the sexual revolution didn't.


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Lynx_Fox
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:51 am

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I agree attitudes have changed, especially as broadcast by main and social media. My point is I think that actual sexual behaviors have changed to a much lesser degree--they are just far more in the open now. This is why I showed teenage pregnancy rates highest during the 50s, when "attitudes" were still very conservative.

Whole conversation remains me of Peyton Place (the book, movie and song) which was about this shift in public perceptions and hypocrisy versus the seedy reality of that town (and every other).


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Pong
Post  Post subject: Re: Sexual and emotional intimacy  |  Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2016 7:10 am
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Very well. The OP question was about mainstream attitudes. I guessed mainstream attitudes are easier understood in social movements than in the complex psychology of abuse victims. Indeed I derived a viable answer that way:

Continue the metaphor:
Quote:
That's like ordering a meal for the taste only and requesting that it have no nutritional value.
That's like being stuffed on mom's bland casserole, and then craving something spicy but insubstantial.

Test by correlating parental affection with preference for capricious sex.


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