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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 5:49 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
Those direct questions were not questions about claims I made. I was just detailing my history on the subject. It was a matter of opinion, and I'm currently undecided.

[How do I make reference to a previous post? I have made two attempts and neither have worked.]

This is one of the EXACT behaviors that gets you the boot on other sites. You make an assertion, get questioned, then whine insistently you have no time, but are on constantly posting on other topics. Its clear you do NOT want to actually address the question. Why should you be allowed to do this?

I don't have to address the question because I have made no claims, only a response to a joke and some historic opinion.

How I spend my time on the forum is my business and shouldn't be a matter of discussion in a thread about man on the Moon.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:36 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
How I spend my time on the forum is my business and shouldn't be a matter of discussion in a thread about man on the Moon.

Partially true, but your posts are also the business of our other members here, as well as site staff. As a member of site staff, I'm asking you to please respond to a direct question.

To keep things simple, I will summarize that question here once more:

You said some aspects of the film were true. Please either acknowledge that you were making things up or share which specific aspects to which you were referring.

For context, the film and post in question are here: topic1832-20.html#p22077

Future posts from you failing to respond to this direct question from me and other members will be immediately thrown in the Trash Can. Your options have been clearly articulated above.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:48 pm

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iNow wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
How I spend my time on the forum is my business and shouldn't be a matter of discussion in a thread about man on the Moon.

Partially true, but your posts are also the business of our other members here, as well as site staff. As a member of site staff, I'm asking you to please respond to a direct question.

To keep things simple, I will summarize that question here once more:

You said some aspects of the film were true. Please either acknowledge that you were making things up or share which specific aspects to which you were referring.

For context, the film and post in question are here: topic1832-20.html#p22077

Future posts from you failing to respond to this direct question from me and other members will be immediately thrown in the Trash Can. Your options are have been clearly articulated above.

As I have implied several times now that original comment "some aspects of the film were true" was a joke (a made up joke if you like), and only referring to the "true" effect that baked beans have on your digestive track.

I was not aware that Paleo had ever questioned me regarding this comment prior to you pointing out that it was a possible claim. Is there a question I missed?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 6:58 pm
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Thank you for clarifying, and my apologies. I'd confused this ad with another film denying the moon landings.

That was my mistake and I appreciate you coming back to correct me about it both patiently and respectfully. As much as I wish I were, I'm clearly not perfect, just human like everyone else.

Out of curiously, though, do you have any doubt that humans have successfully landed on our moon, because if you do that's another kettle of fish entirely.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:09 pm

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iNow wrote:
Thank you for clarifying, and my apologies. I'd confused this ad with another film denying the moon landings.

That was my mistake and I appreciate you coming back to correct me about patiently and respectfully.

Out of curiously, though, do you have any doubt that we've successfully landed on our moon?


Thanks for clearing that up. I've learned only to have small helpings of baked beans.

I don't know the answer. It screws me up trying to think how can there be such a polarisation over this topic. (Now I'm only talking about the first Moon landing.) My current sensible choice is they went to the Moon but the images that were shown publically were studio images pre-recorded.

I don't know if there has ever been a denial from NASA regarding that combination of events.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 7:53 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
iNow wrote:
Out of curiosity, though, do you have any doubt that we've successfully landed on our moon?

My current sensible choice is they went to the Moon but the images that were shown publically were studio images pre-recorded.

That's not sensible IMO, though. What specific evidence or reason do you have to believe the images were recorded in a studio? That's long been debunked as nonsense. Are you familiar with those myriad debunkings?

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 8:14 pm

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iNow wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
iNow wrote:
Out of curiosity, though, do you have any doubt that we've successfully landed on our moon?

My current sensible choice is they went to the Moon but the images that were shown publically were studio images pre-recorded.

That's not sensible IMO, though. What specific evidence or reason do you have to believe the images were recorded in a studio? That's long been debunked as nonsense. Are you familiar with those myriad debunkings?

My flatmate used to show me them all the time. The one image that continues to create doubt was one with the capsule taking off from the moon.
It didn't seem to be physically correct to me (as in laws of physics applied).
There would be YT videos of this available. Where the camera pans upward as the capsule takes off from the Moon. Now how did they do that? Was it timed or was there a motion sensor attached to the camera to follow it. There could be an alternative answer but I haven't heard of it yet.

Has this been explained?


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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 9:19 pm

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I really want to leave this controversy alone for it would take up too much time.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:41 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
Has this been explained?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Moon_landi ... -off_video

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 10:53 pm

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Quote:
What mission did Armstrong fly to the moon? Apollo 11 was the name of the first manned lunar landing mission. - See more at: http://www.space.com/15519-neil-armstro ... 0WJgD.dpuf


I'm not so concerned with Apollo 17 but just Apollo 11. The camera was remotely controlled from the ground for Apollo 17. OK, was that also on Apollo 11? I don't want you to waste time on this either. So you don't have to answer.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sat May 28, 2016 11:01 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
I'm not so concerned with Apollo 17 but just Apollo 11. The camera was remotely controlled from the ground for Apollo 17. OK, was that also on Apollo 11?

AFAIK, there is no video from the perspective of the moons surface showing Apollo 11 taking off, just Apollo 17 (even though some still cameras were left behind from Apollo 11 in order to save weight).

Video from the Apollo 11 ascent was taken instead from a 16mm camera mounted to the outside of the LMPs window giving a view of the receding moon from the rockets perspective.

Feel free to correct me if you have evidence to the contrary.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 3:49 am

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iNow wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
I'm not so concerned with Apollo 17 but just Apollo 11. The camera was remotely controlled from the ground for Apollo 17. OK, was that also on Apollo 11?

AFAIK, there is no video from the perspective of the moons surface showing Apollo 11 taking off, just Apollo 17 (even though some still cameras were left behind from Apollo 11 in order to save weight).

Video from the Apollo 11 ascent was taken instead from a 16mm camera mounted to the outside of the LMPs window giving a view of the receding moon from the rockets perspective.

Feel free to correct me if you have evidence to the contrary.

This may have contributed to my confusion for when I thought they were referring to Apollo 11 they were using footage that was from the Apollo 16 or 17 mission.
I've just watched one video and you could hear the astronaut saying "what a ride, what ride" so I Googled that phrase and it came from Apollo 16.
It would get even more confusing if the sound tracks and the footage of various mission were incorporated (intermixed).

A hand controlled camera operated from Earth panning the ascent of the lunar capsule? With the 2 seconds delay due to the speed of light (from moon and back), and then adding on the human reaction time, I wonder if that task can really be done?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 4:31 am
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Yes, it can, especially since they knew in advance and could preprogrammed the exact time, trajectory, and thrust of the launch.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 6:48 am

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iNow wrote:
Yes, it can, especially since they knew in advance and could preprogrammed the exact time, trajectory, and thrust of the launch.

OK - it just shows how this can never be solved for that would have to be subject to experiment. If they panned upward on expectation of a successful launch the camera would not be focused on the craft if it malfunctioned. (I'd propose that would be one of the main reasons to film the lift off.)
Apollo 13 was abandoned so were all the other's successful? Yet there seems to be only the lunar launching videos of 16 and 17 that I know of at the moment.
None for 11, 12, 14 ,15 what reason could you propose for that omission?


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astromark2014
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:40 am
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Robittybob1 wrote:
iNow wrote:
Yes, it can, especially since they knew in advance and could preprogrammed the exact time, trajectory, and thrust of the launch.

OK - it just shows how this can never be solved for that would have to be subject to experiment. If they panned upward on expectation of a successful launch the camera would not be focused on the craft if it malfunctioned. (I'd propose that would be one of the main reasons to film the lift off.)
Apollo 13 was abandoned so were all the other's successful? Yet there seems to be only the lunar launching videos of 16 and 17 that I know of at the moment.
None for 11, 12, 14 ,15 what reason could you propose for that omission?



Wait a moment. That's not right. I am confident enough not to look for you. There is file footage of 'ALL' the Lunar landings available and on You tube or from the NASA site direct.. How many times have we watched that / those. 11,12,14,15 16,and 17.

So you ignore the lift off from Earth and focus on the return and lunar lift off; why ?

In regard to the ascent from the Moon. Only the last two had a camera located so as to upload a image file..
11, and 12 were very grainy and of poor quality. The later missions improved the film quality to be clear and in colour by 16 and 17.
Yes there was a remote cam left some distance from the module witch panned up as the ascent progressed. I can not recall if it was 16 or 17.. ( both.)
As for reasons for omission. In 1969 they were breaking new ground.. expecting film coverage was not a high needs area.

Filmed for you to pour over and test. Plenty of real hardware and actual lunar rocks.

Do you still hold some doubt that all of this actually happened., or are you just teasing me.. really ?

I will ask you to write a list of reasons you doubt it, or any of it. I do want you to be informed as well as I am..
When you have a few hours spare.. search the NASA site.. ' file footage of lunar landers ( Apollo ) '.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 9:24 pm

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It would be very hard to fake a lift off from Cape Canaveral or wherever they launched from. But beyond that it would be a lot easier. As I said to Inow it takes too much time to resolve this. I've just watched one documentary[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIy8ZqqK5G8[/youtube] and they said there is too much much radiation in the Van Allen belts, and that was just one claim, so I would have to prove or disprove thousands of questions/statements and I just haven't got the time.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:13 pm
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Fortunately, more hours than you and I combined have been alive have already been spent by credible others disproving and debunking the silly denialist waste of time nonsense about the moon landings.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 10:17 pm

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iNow wrote:
Fortunately, more hours than you and I combined have been alive have already been spent by credible others disproving and debunking the silly denialist waste of time nonsense about the moon landings.

That's right, so all the effort you or I put in will make no difference. So I remain a Moon Landing agnostic.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:15 pm
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Are you also agnostic about the existence of gravity, or maybe beef?

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:32 pm

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iNow wrote:
Are you also agnostic about the existence of gravity, or maybe beef?

Beef? That is an unusual question. I work with gravity problems all the time, so I don't poo hoo the idea. I raise beef and eat beef whether or not it is bad for our health.
Are you trying to say the Moon landings are so matter of fact they can't be questioned? But they have been questioned and I find from where I am I can't answer them to my satisfaction. So I sit on the fence, but I keep an eye on the debates and findings as they come up. I certainly would love to feel that I know the answer, but I have work to do. Cheers someone has arrived to buy some beef, price depends on weight (gravity).


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Sun May 29, 2016 11:48 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
Are you trying to say the Moon landings are so matter of fact they can't be questioned?

I'm saying that every question asked and every criticism raised about the moon landing has been much more than adequately addressed for decades.

The fact that you're personally oblivious to and unfamiliar with those details has no bearing on the underlying veracity or validity of the moon landing, an event so well supported that it's only questioned by fools or folks with an agenda (though, I do stipulate that these are not mutually exclusive groups).

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 12:11 am

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iNow wrote:
I'm saying that every question asked and every criticism raised about the moon landing has been much more than adequately addressed for decades.

As I said I watched another documentary earlier which had both sides of the case but I personally found the pro side's answers lacked the depth I need.
I might not have studied it intently for I was multitasking, but when I did listen, I wasn't impressed. There are many other documentaries, some 2 hours long, as I have said it is too much effort with no personal gain.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 1:14 am
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I suppose you can choose to remain ignorant. It is a free country, after all.

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astromark2014
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 9:16 am
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~ Elsewhere in this coffee shop I answered Robertybob " In the free-flow thread." I invite him to look at that and consider all that we know.
Can we be sure. Yes. absolutely. Is there any doubt ? NO.
I see you mention the radiation of the trip out and back. STOP.
Count the number of people that have been out to the Moon and back and have died of old age...
and some are still with us.. Have any of those who have become ill or died attribute such to their space flights.. NO.
Each flight with three on board; 8,10,11,12,13,14,15,16, and 17. That looks like 27 People..
The point being that the metallic ship structure and the clothing they wore offered them protection enough..
If you have doubts, they are founded on false information. Stop referring to You tube as a source of science revue.. It's not.

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janus
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 5:16 pm

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Robittybob1 wrote:
It would be very hard to fake a lift off from Cape Canaveral or wherever they launched from. But beyond that it would be a lot easier. As I said to Inow it takes too much time to resolve this. I've just watched one documentary[youtube] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIy8ZqqK5G8[/youtube] and they said there is too much much radiation in the Van Allen belts, and that was just one claim, so I would have to prove or disprove thousands of questions/statements and I just haven't got the time.


Let's consider the Van Allen belt issue. It was a concern for NASA, but not an insurmountable one. The belts girdle the equator like thus, with the inner proton laden belt being the Inner one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#/media/File:Rendering_of_Van_Allen_radiation_belts_of_Earth_2.jpg

Now consider the fact that Moon's orbit aligns closer to the ecliptic than it does to the Earth's equator, and that at the time of year of the Apollo 11 launch, in July, it was a time where the difference was the greatest and a trans-lunar trajectory would by necessity be at an angle to the equator. The previous two missions that to the got to the Moon (Apollo's 8 and 10) were launched in Dec. and May, both during times when this alignment took place ( the May Apollo 10 launch was a bit before the maximal ideal, and the July Apollo 11 launch a bit after, but that was likely due to their wanting to launch 10 and 11 as close as possible to each other, and given the minimum turn around time between launches, chose dates that straddled the prime one.)

Due to this alignment, it took very little tweaking of the trajectory in order to insure that it missed the more dangerous inner belt completely and only passed through the outer one, where in the few hours it took to pass through it the astronauts were exposed to the total equivalent of radiation that a nuclear power plant operator gets in 1 year. The astronauts carried dosimeters, which registered just how much radiation they were exposed to and gave them information for later launches.

All of the so-called arguments against the Moon launch fail in similar ways, with some of them being outright silly.

For instance, the argument that there is no dust on the landing pad of the LEM. The argument being that dust kicked up in the landing should have settled on the pads. This ignores the fact that without air, there is nothing to suspend the dust and that it would have been thrown away at on a purely ballistic path.

Or the the argument that there are no stars in any of the pictures, which fails to take into account that at the exposure needed to take a picture of a brightly lit object, the stars are too dim to see.

So what is the basic appeal of these argument to people and why do they persist? It's the "I'm so clever" syndrome. It's the love of the idea that the individual can catch "mistakes" made by others. As if NASA, in their efforts to fake the Moon missions would neglect to throw a handful of dust onto the LEM pads or provide a few stars in some shots, if they thought they should be there. You can be sure that if NASA were going to try and fake it, they would have had every photo and every frame of footage poured over by multiple experts looking for just those kinds of "mistakes" the Moon landing deniers claim to be have found before it was ever released.

You also have to realize that the stuff they released just didn't have to fool the general public, but also scientific experts from around the world, including those in the USSR, which would have absolutely giddy over the idea of exposing the American Moon landings as being faked. After all, the main point of going to the Moon was to show up the USSR. In fact, if they thought they could have cast even a reasonable doubt on the question in the minds of the world scientific establishment they would have jumped at the chance. They didn't try because they knew the world would have laughed in their faces. Just making the attempt on such claims as the Moon landing deniers hang their hats on would have cost them standing in the court of World opinion.

On the other hand, faking the Moon landings on the USA's part and getting caught would have caused so much damage to the USA's reputation( much more than a failure of a real attempt), that the potential pay-off of getting away with it wouldn't have been worth the risk.


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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 7:10 pm

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I appreciate that explanation, but what about the remote controlled camera, is it possible (considering the time delay) to operate it successfully from the Earth? (as mentioned in prior posts)

Those dosimeters results were they ever revealed?


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pzkpfw
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 7:54 pm

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Robittybob1 wrote:
.. but what about the remote controlled camera, is it possible (considering the time delay) to operate it successfully from the Earth? (as mentioned in prior posts) ...


The later J block missions included the lunar rovers.

It was on the rovers that the remote controlled cameras were mounted; thus the views of the lift off were only provided on those later missions.

The timing was difficult, but was practiced. The guy doing it had the advantage of knowing the timing to expect.

ht_tp://io9.gizmodo.com/how-nasa-captured-this-iconic-footage-of-apollo-17-leav-1671650186

It's been a while, but I think this was captured in the dramatization, "From the Earth to the Moon".

I really recommend watching this series, as it shows just how much engineering went into the Moon landings.


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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 8:26 pm

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pzkpfw wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
.. but what about the remote controlled camera, is it possible (considering the time delay) to operate it successfully from the Earth? (as mentioned in prior posts) ...


The later J block missions included the lunar rovers.

It was on the rovers that the remote controlled cameras were mounted; thus the views of the lift off were only provided on those later missions.

The timing was difficult, but was practiced. The guy doing it had the advantage of knowing the timing to expect.

ht_tp://io9.gizmodo.com/how-nasa-captured-this-iconic-footage-of-apollo-17-leav-1671650186

It's been a while, but I think this was captured in the dramatization, "From the Earth to the Moon".

I really recommend watching this series, as it shows just how much engineering went into the Moon landings.

That was interesting to know that these cameras were mounted on the rovers. Thanks.


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pzkpfw
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Mon May 30, 2016 10:15 pm

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Robittybob1 wrote:
That was interesting to know that these cameras were mounted on the rovers. Thanks.


Much more interesting is how it took a couple of go's to get it right.

The conspiracy people often claim "how did X work so well?" - but have no idea how much planning, design, and training went into all aspects of the Moon landings.


Further: I've seen recent interviews with Ed Fendell; i.e. if this stuff was hoaxed, then NASA is having to maintain that hoax. Really? How do people believe that?


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janus
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 12:57 am

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Robittybob1 wrote:
I appreciate that explanation, but what about the remote controlled camera, is it possible (considering the time delay) to operate it successfully from the Earth? (as mentioned in prior posts)

A better question would why would NASA release footage that they knew that they wouldn't been able get in a real mission and thus a dead give way that it was faked?(assuming they faked the missions). The footage of the Lunar lift-off just isn't necessary to selling the idea of a Moon landing, so if including it risks exposing it as a fake, you just don't.
Quote:

Those dosimeters results were they ever revealed?


https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tnD7080RadProtect.pdf


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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:04 am

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janus wrote:
A better question would why would NASA release footage that they knew that they wouldn't been able get in a real mission and thus a dead give way that it was faked?(assuming they faked the missions). The footage of the Lunar lift-off just isn't necessary to selling the idea of a Moon landing, so if including it risks exposing it as a fake, you just don't.
Quote:

Those dosimeters results were they ever revealed?


https://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/tnD7080RadProtect.pdf

I have never seen that paper referenced before. It is quite detailed I'll digest it a bit later.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 1:53 am
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Robittybob1 wrote:
janus wrote:

I have never seen that paper referenced before. It is quite detailed I'll digest it a bit later.

Why do you still maintain that there is anything credible about the hoax proponents?

IT seems that your reasoning boils down to "the science and technology of the time just isnt quite flashy and wow for you" thus you assert that until it is you think it was fake

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 3:28 am

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paleoichneum wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
I have never seen that paper referenced before. It is quite detailed I'll digest it a bit later.

Why do you still maintain that there is anything credible about the hoax proponents?

IT seems that your reasoning boils down to "the science and technology of the time just isnt quite flashy and wow for you" thus you assert that until it is you think it was fake

I'm tending more to is was for real with the answers I've been getting here.


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astromark2014
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:26 am
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` With each reply the offal hole gets deeper. Very well argued points of 'every' argument and even some reasoned thinking of the politics of that era.
No case of fraud is found. That the Americans in 1969 landed and returned safely, men to Earth's Moon.
That six missions delivered 12 men, there and back.. There exist no argument.

and that any argument is not supported by revue.. The proponents of such arguments are just in some denial of fact as known.
That I know a secret syndrome is apparent and foolish. Spend a few hours reading the files as found at NASA's home page..

Learn of the race.. and that Kennedy's words drove a powerful drive.. and they achieved the goal. In spectacular style.

You can not take from America it's greatest achievement. The pinnacle of human endeavour. " Peep,~ Tranquillity base ~ The Eagle Has Landed.."

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 11:04 am

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astromark2014 wrote:
` With each reply the offal hole gets deeper. Very well argued points of 'every' argument and even some reasoned thinking of the politics of that era.
No case of fraud is found. That the Americans in 1969 landed and returned safely, men to Earth's Moon.
That six missions delivered 12 men, there and back.. There exist no argument.

and that any argument is not supported by revue.. The proponents of such arguments are just in some denial of fact as known.
That I know a secret syndrome is apparent and foolish. Spend a few hours reading the files as found at NASA's home page..

Learn of the race.. and that Kennedy's words drove a powerful drive.. and they achieved the goal. In spectacular style.

You can not take from America it's greatest achievement. The pinnacle of human endeavour. " Peep,~ Tranquillity base ~ The Eagle Has Landed.."

That style of arguing the point ("it is true,just believe it") is just the sort of attitude that will keep the controversy continuing. Have you looked at all the objections and their rebuttals? I think if you are already accepting that man walked on the Moon in 1969, you might find the rebuttals more than enough to maintain your position, but if you were a doubter I think you would find they just don't absolutely remove the doubt.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 4:40 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
That style of arguing the point ("it is true,just believe it") is just the sort of attitude that will keep the controversy continuing.

Except, that's not the argument being made. The criticisms have all been addressed repeatedly here and elsewhere. The point is that it's not our problem you're actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant about the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals provided to doubts and doubters.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 7:30 pm

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iNow wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
That style of arguing the point ("it is true,just believe it") is just the sort of attitude that will keep the controversy continuing.

Except, that's not the argument being made. The criticisms have all been addressed repeatedly here and elsewhere. The point is that it's not our problem you're actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant about the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals provided to doubts and doubters.

Hey, I don't really want an argument, but as I read that post you once again put all the blame on me ("actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant") and inflate the other side ("the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals"). There has to be the detail in the facts and rebuttals first to overcome the ignorance.


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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:49 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
iNow wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
That style of arguing the point ("it is true,just believe it") is just the sort of attitude that will keep the controversy continuing.

Except, that's not the argument being made. The criticisms have all been addressed repeatedly here and elsewhere. The point is that it's not our problem you're actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant about the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals provided to doubts and doubters.

Hey, I don't really want an argument, but as I read that post you once again put all the blame on me ("actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant") and inflate the other side ("the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals"). There has to be the detail in the facts and rebuttals first to overcome the ignorance.

That. detail. exists....

YOU have refused to listen to the detail provided here, on the .com, and elsewhere. Thus the onus is indeed on you alone for not accepting the factual nature of the landings.

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Robittybob1
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 8:58 pm

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paleoichneum wrote:
Robittybob1 wrote:
Hey, I don't really want an argument, but as I read that post you once again put all the blame on me ("actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant") and inflate the other side ("the facts of the missions and the valid rebuttals"). There has to be the detail in the facts and rebuttals first to overcome the ignorance.

That. detail. exists....

YOU have refused to listen to the detail provided here, on the .com, and elsewhere. Thus the onus is indeed on you alone for not accepting the factual nature of the landings.

Look Mr Argumentative, you don't know if I have refused to listen. It goes back to something I said earlier to get to the "factual nature of the landings" just takes too much of my time. So I remain undecided ATM.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Tue May 31, 2016 9:18 pm
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Robittybob1 wrote:
as I read that post you once again put all the blame on me ("actively choosing to remain obstinate and willfully ignorant")

Thank you for confirming your comprehension of my point.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 12:34 am
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MODNOTE: Several posts above have been moved to the trash: topic1998.html

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pzkpfw
Post  Post subject: Re: How come we never went to the moon?  |  Posted: Wed Jun 01, 2016 5:41 am

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Robittybob1 wrote:
Look Mr Argumentative, you don't know if I have refused to listen. It goes back to something I said earlier to get to the "factual nature of the landings" just takes too much of my time. So I remain undecided ATM.


Nobody starts with the position "getting to the factual nature of World War II takes too much of my time, so I remain undecided whether it really occured".


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