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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not a  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:58 pm
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Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?

Romans 12:21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Job 2;3 And the LORD said unto Satan: 'Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a whole-hearted and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? and he still holdeth fast his integrity, although thou didst move Me against him, to destroy him without cause.'

From what I have read in scriptures, God does not follow the advice that he gives in his WORD. The above shows him overcome by evil and replying with evil.

Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?

At the end of days and in many biblical stories of the past, God is overcome by evil and responds with evil while telling us we should respond with good.

Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?

I think that if God is saying, --- do as I say and not as I do, ---- that that is an immoral example that only a satanic demiurge would say. Yet it appears that that is what God is saying.

Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

They are not the same. One is good the other evil.

Regards
DL


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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:05 pm
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I think someone has an unhealthy fixation on the deity from the abrahamic genre.

Are you working under the assumption that if and should a creator type deity exists, it is the one from that particular genre? If so, how did you identify it?

scoobydoo1 wrote:
Only Orange is a Fruit Fallacy

If religions are fruits, and the abrahamic genre are oranges; the manner in which they speak often gives me the impression that the only fruit they can think of are oranges. Gone are the apples, pears, and grapes, etc from how they formulate the way they both think and speak. It is either oranges or there are no fruits.

How odd.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:29 pm
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if god doesn't exist (as i believe it to be the case), how then can you follow his word ?
a whole load of paradoxes resolve into thin air as soon as you take god's non-existence as a given

Occam probably didn't know it when he declared his famous razor, but in essence he made god as an entity superfluous if you insist that removing all the religious epicycles makes life a lot simpler (and dare i say it, safer ?)

so in essence, this thread isn't about god at all is it ? it's all about people being fallible and a product of their time and place - but that's nothing new, and hardly worth debating

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:08 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
I think someone has an unhealthy fixation on the deity from the abrahamic genre.

Are you working under the assumption that if and should a creator type deity exists, it is the one from that particular genre? If so, how did you identify it?

scoobydoo1 wrote:
Only Orange is a Fruit Fallacy

If religions are fruits, and the abrahamic genre are oranges; the manner in which they speak often gives me the impression that the only fruit they can think of are oranges. Gone are the apples, pears, and grapes, etc from how they formulate the way they both think and speak. It is either oranges or there are no fruits.

How odd.


As a Gnostic Christian, I follow our myth that says that that God is an evil demiurge. We created those myths to express our opinion on an evil Yahweh.

I think my fixation quite healthy as it keeps me fighting the ideology of homophobia and misogyny that the mainstream religions follow.

I hope you do not mind and BTW, if you are not doing the same, shame on you for not seeking justice for women and gays.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 6:10 pm
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marnixR wrote:
if god doesn't exist (as i believe it to be the case), how then can you follow his word ?
a whole load of paradoxes resolve into thin air as soon as you take god's non-existence as a given

Occam probably didn't know it when he declared his famous razor, but in essence he made god as an entity superfluous if you insist that removing all the religious epicycles makes life a lot simpler (and dare i say it, safer ?)

so in essence, this thread isn't about god at all is it ? it's all about people being fallible and a product of their time and place - but that's nothing new, and hardly worth debating


I mostly agree.

Then why are you in the religion forum?

Are you like me and try to correct poor thinking.

Regards
DL


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:07 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Then why are you in the religion forum?


because religion is a human activity which an atheist can study the way an anthropologist studies stone age tribes - it doesn't mean you need to go native

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:25 pm
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One of the standards I would set for adoption of a moral code is simply pragmatic: is there a good probability of being able to live upto that standard? If you have a role model whom you know is genuine and fits the criteria of the moral code then the answer would be 'yes'. However human nature the world over has proven itself to fall short of the exacting standards of Christianity. So we cannot look to humanity for that role model; may we instead look to God? Well, overlooking the fact that he does not exist, no we cannot because (i) as you point out, Gnostic Bishop, God is a hypocrite; and, (ii) he has no idea what human life is about.

And even if a moral code seemed realistic in terms of the followers being reasonably able to stick to its standards, no moral code ought to be entered into on the basis of authority or tradition - Christianity does not hold up to scrutiny by any rational decent human being.

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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:54 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
As a Gnostic Christian, I follow our myth that says ...

How did you discern the identity of this deity?

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
... shame on you for ...

Provocation to action based on a specific genre's attitudes towards gender and sexual orientation isn't how I usually operate. In my part of the world, there are a much wider selection of genres to choose from - and act upon should I so choose to.


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marnixR
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:26 am
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Rory wrote:
Well, overlooking the fact that he does not exist, no we cannot because (i) as you point out, Gnostic Bishop, God is a hypocrite; and, (ii) he has no idea what human life is about.


however, if god really doesn't exist, then the allocation of characteristics to a non-existing entity is neither here nor there
hence the hypocrisy is with fallible human beings who pretend to have a bigger brother who's coming to get you

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:42 pm
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marnixR wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Then why are you in the religion forum?


because religion is a human activity which an atheist can study the way an anthropologist studies stone age tribes - it doesn't mean you need to go native


Cool.

I suggest that Freud's Father Complex will just about tell you all you need to know for how individuals work and Jonathan Haigt for the groupish or hivish for the source of why we build churches.

Those two issues basically explain who and what we are and why we create Gods.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:47 pm
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Rory wrote:
One of the standards I would set for adoption of a moral code is simply pragmatic: is there a good probability of being able to live upto that standard? If you have a role model whom you know is genuine and fits the criteria of the moral code then the answer would be 'yes'. However human nature the world over has proven itself to fall short of the exacting standards of Christianity. So we cannot look to humanity for that role model; may we instead look to God? Well, overlooking the fact that he does not exist, no we cannot because (i) as you point out, Gnostic Bishop, God is a hypocrite; and, (ii) he has no idea what human life is about.

And even if a moral code seemed realistic in terms of the followers being reasonably able to stick to its standards, no moral code ought to be entered into on the basis of authority or tradition - Christianity does not hold up to scrutiny by any rational decent human being.


For sure and no argument.

One thing.

"no moral code ought to be entered into on the basis of authority or tradition".

We all enter the moral code in vogue as we grow up. We follow mommy and daddies code until we are bright enough to recognize so of the inferior aspects of them.

So the advice you give in that quoted part no one can follow till mature.

We all hurt our children somehow and showing them our poor morals is our first bit of abuse as it is something they have to shake off.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:51 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
As a Gnostic Christian, I follow our myth that says ...

How did you discern the identity of this deity?



As stated, they are myths and whoever wrote the myth I would guess decided what to call the various imaginary characters.

The only God I truly know is me. I am God. So are you.

The biblical logic follows.

Adam and Eve became as Gods when they gained a moral sense and no longer had their mind cut off from intelligent thought. As our primordial ancestors, we inherit that same trait even though Christianity wrongly thinks that to be evil and a fall. Retaining dominion over the earth, humans never revoked this inherited trait of a moral sense, --- and the right for man to judge himself. Jesus highlights this when he took the seat of judgement at God’s right hand.

When I use terms like “I am God”, or “you are God”, I am not speaking of the traditional miracle working God of scriptures and myths. He does not exist as far as we can know as he has never made an appearance to prove his reality.

What I am trying to convey to you by saying that you are a God in your own right is to be master of yourself and you need not be a sheep. You can, as Jesus says, pick up your burdens and responsibilities for your sins and follow his mind set. Be a shepherd. Lead by example.

What I am trying to convey is that the only God you can ever know is the good you find within yourself. It's your ideal of God and of the Jesus or Christ mind. That is quite different from me or someone thinking they are the traditional creator God, or thinking that they are more than anyone else. Both Jesus and the Christ in these myths are for equality. Not the misogyny that we presently enjoy. That is another topic though. We are to be co-equal with Jesus.

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus would explain this concept as one just seeing that they have joined God’s Divine Council by embracing his own Christ mind. Or better said, as this is the more eastern Jesus, we activate our pineal gland and open our third eye.

Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.

John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_Council

Regards
DL


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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:58 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
As stated, they are myths and whoever wrote the myth I would guess decided what to call the various imaginary characters.

Is the abrahamic genre the only genre that you are aware of that exists thoughout the world and in history?

You personally accept that a and/or more "higher power" exists, I am asking how you were able to discern the identity of this "higher power" amongst all the others recorded throughout history and across all the different cultures. How did you arrive at the conclusion that the deity you have supposedly come to accept that exists - is from the abrahamic genre?


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:25 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
[
Quote:
quote="Gnostic Bishop"]As stated, they are myths and whoever wrote the myth I would guess decided what to call the various imaginary characters.

Is the abrahamic genre the only genre that you are aware of that exists thoughout the world and in history?


No. I am aware of most of the known or named Gods.

Quote:
You personally accept that a and/or more "higher power" exists,


No. I recognize no higher power than man. The only God fit to rule men is a man. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man can express the will of God?

There have always only been men and women of good heart able to express God’s will.

Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self.


I do recognize that there is a cosmic consciousness but to call it a higher power would not be accurate. More intelligent than the average for sure as it has access to the minds of all who have passed since it's creation. That would be self or inadvertent creation.

Quote:
I am asking how you were able to discern the identity of this "higher power" amongst all the others recorded throughout history and across all the different cultures.


I did not say it had an identity. I see it as what everyone calls God but that becomes a meaningless word as it does not fit the attributes we give to the word God. We have made that work a catch all for whatever imaginary characteristics we give to a God who most say is unknowable. There are sure a lot of people who know the unknowable somehow.

Quote:
How did you arrive at the conclusion that the deity you have supposedly come to accept that exists - is from the abrahamic genre?
[/quote]

It is not. It is it's own genre and un-named as far as I can tell. That may be why Gnostic Christians just call it Good.

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2015 8:24 pm
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Why, evolutionarily speaking, does the Freudian father complex exist? Wouldn't it tend to promote incest if followed to its logical conclusion and therefore an increase in genetic diseases? The function may be purely developmental such that when a maturing female eventually relates to her mother, she stops subconsciously viewing the father with sexual lust and develops attachments to males of her own generation. But those females who never identify with their mothers may then seek out life partners of their father's generation and thus may on the whole be reproductively less successful. Wouldn't offspring resistant to the father complex have a competitive advantage? Why then has this not happened?

As for receiving 'wisdom' on the basis of authority: just because children empirically do receive 'wisdom' from their parents on the basis of authority does not mean that they ought to do so nor that the behaviour is healthy. The responsibility lies with the parents and unfortunately a lot of parents are sub-standard in the brain-training arena. Ideally children should be exposed to all philosophies in a neutral fashion and encouraged to appraise them independently. Instead we live in a culture in which many parents regard it as acceptable to answer "because I said so" when children ask for rational reasons.

Religions are essentially a community of people living according to mutually agreed rules and standards. Any member who breaks a rule or falls short of a standard is punished by the group (the group or religious community being the only 'God').

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 3:41 pm
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Rory wrote:
Why, evolutionarily speaking, does the Freudian father complex exist?

It almost certainly doesn't. Freud was very famous, but wrong about most things.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:38 pm
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iNow wrote:
Rory wrote:
Why, evolutionarily speaking, does the Freudian father complex exist?

It almost certainly doesn't. Freud was very famous, but wrong about most things.


Why do you compete for the best grades or job. To be just one of many or the one at the top?

Do you compete to be the least fit or the most fit.

Do you compete for the 4th spot or the gold medal?

Did you reproduce?

Did you want to reproduce the fittest you could produce or someone less than the fittest.

We should all want to be and produce the fittest. That is what nature tried to instill in you and why the Father Complex is a real phenomenon.

You have shown that you are not fit to judge Freud. Did you know that Jung agreed with Freud on this?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

Best end is fittest.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 9:45 pm
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Rory wrote:
Why, evolutionarily speaking, does the Freudian father complex exist? Wouldn't it tend to promote incest if followed to its logical conclusion and therefore an increase in genetic diseases? The function may be purely developmental such that when a maturing female eventually relates to her mother, she stops subconsciously viewing the father with sexual lust and develops attachments to males of her own generation. But those females who never identify with their mothers may then seek out life partners of their father's generation and thus may on the whole be reproductively less successful. Wouldn't offspring resistant to the father complex have a competitive advantage? Why then has this not happened?

As for receiving 'wisdom' on the basis of authority: just because children empirically do receive 'wisdom' from their parents on the basis of authority does not mean that they ought to do so nor that the behaviour is healthy. The responsibility lies with the parents and unfortunately a lot of parents are sub-standard in the brain-training arena. Ideally children should be exposed to all philosophies in a neutral fashion and encouraged to appraise them independently. Instead we live in a culture in which many parents regard it as acceptable to answer "because I said so" when children ask for rational reasons.

Religions are essentially a community of people living according to mutually agreed rules and standards. Any member who breaks a rule or falls short of a standard is punished by the group (the group or religious community being the only 'God').


I cannot see why it would promote incest and as you pointed out, it has not.

The Father and Mother Complex is forming or formed as an ideal archetype in us and that is created from our parents as well as the rest of the community.

It is being the fittest in the groups view that seek. Not the fittest to just our parents.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 10:45 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Best end is fittest.

Perhaps you're unclear that Freud and Darwin were different men with different hypotheses?

Regardless, Freud's theory of the Oedipus complex (and its companion, the Electra complex) have themselves largely been discounted, regardless of how Jung may have felt about them.

It would be a mistake to continue on in life accepting them as not only true, but also as foundational to your argument and/or worldview.

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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:11 am

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
We should all want to be and produce the fittest.

That's what you may want. Many people interpret "fittest" differently, and many people do not wish to be the "fittest" at reproduction, or their job, or their grades, or their sports etc. It would be a mistake to try to impose your standards on others.[/quote]


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:29 pm
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Best end is fittest.

Perhaps you're unclear that Freud and Darwin were different men with different hypotheses?

Regardless, Freud's theory of the Oedipus complex (and its companion, the Electra complex) have themselves largely been discounted, regardless of how Jung may have felt about them.

It would be a mistake to continue on in life accepting them as not only true, but also as foundational to your argument and/or worldview.


It is a logical extension to evolution. It explains quite well why we create Gods and seek the fittest archetype to follow or be.

If not, what is your theory for what motivates us to be the fittest?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJ1PDxeUynA

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:32 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
We should all want to be and produce the fittest.

That's what you may want. Many people interpret "fittest" differently, and many people do not wish to be the "fittest" at reproduction, or their job, or their grades, or their sports etc. It would be a mistake to try to impose your standards on others.
[/quote]

I cannot impose anything.

But to think that people wish to produce anything other than the best in offspring or anything else is foolish and illogical.

When you bowl, for instance, do you shoot for a strike or something less?

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:54 pm
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Gnostic Bishop, as iNow has pointed out, I was referring to the Oedipus and Electra complexes with regard incest, although you may have meant something else entirely by 'father complex'.

From a productiveness perspective, always trying to excel is a positive attitude to take - but from a psychological and emotional point of view it can have adverse effects if feelings of self-worth are dependent on performance outcome. I was watching 'Child Genius' recently, love that show featuring all the bright young things with amazing personalities. At various points in the competition multiple children broke down crying, well more than crying, it was more like despair - because their parents have conditioned them to feel worthy of love only if they outcompete everybody else. That attitude is positively harmful.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 6:22 pm
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Rory wrote:
Gnostic Bishop, as iNow has pointed out, I was referring to the Oedipus and Electra complexes with regard incest, although you may have meant something else entirely by 'father complex'.

From a productiveness perspective, always trying to excel is a positive attitude to take - but from a psychological and emotional point of view it can have adverse effects if feelings of self-worth are dependent on performance outcome. I was watching 'Child Genius' recently, love that show featuring all the bright young things with amazing personalities. At various points in the competition multiple children broke down crying, well more than crying, it was more like despair - because their parents have conditioned them to feel worthy of love only if they outcompete everybody else. That attitude is positively harmful.


No argument if the tears were created from what the parents did.

It has been a long time from today but I recall a task once that I could not accomplish and ended in my own tears of frustration. Not because I could not do the task alone, but because I would have to admit defeat in a task I though I should have been able to do. There was no adult involved.

No, I do not think of myself as a genius. More of an idiot semi-savant. LOL.

But yes, I was thinking more of the Father Complex in the creation of an ideal archetype for ourselves than some of the other conditions spoken of by the Oedipus and Electra complexes.

I see those as the Father Complex gone to ridiculous levels and have never met any woman that wanted to have sex with her father.

Except for one poor woman that was going to let her father abuse her again after years of abuse. I guess that is an example of Stockholm Syndrome more than the Oedipus and Electra complexes.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:25 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
It is a logical extension to evolution.

Perhaps, but you were referring to Freud and Freud's ideas should not be conflated with evolution, hence my challenge.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
what is your theory for what motivates us to be the fittest?

Neurochemistry triggered by specific actions and behaviors themselves selected for through the millennia and reinforced by surrounding culture.

This also has nothing to do with the long discredited ideas of the mother/father Oedipus/Electra complexes which you were specifically using as foundational to your position.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 8:42 pm
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Gnostic Bishop, from what I understand of the Oedipus and Electra complexes, the sexual desire directed toward the parent is not something that the child is consciously self-aware of - so for that reason, you would never encounter a woman who remembers being self-aware of that state. I haven't taken the time to study Freud or Psychology in general so I have no idea whether or not the theory is accurate.

As for the Stockholm complex, it is obviously presented as a complex or aberration, but who makes that judgment call? For all we know, the captive might genuinely appreciate one or more aspects of the captor's personality while not approving of their other actions or overall personality. If you spend enough time with someone you are bound to find at least one thing that you like about them.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:17 am
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
It is a logical extension to evolution.

Perhaps, but you were referring to Freud and Freud's ideas should not be conflated with evolution, hence my challenge.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
what is your theory for what motivates us to be the fittest?

Neurochemistry triggered by specific actions and behaviors themselves selected for through the millennia and reinforced by surrounding culture.

This also has nothing to do with the long discredited ideas of the mother/father Oedipus/Electra complexes which you were specifically using as foundational to your position.


I just said that I was not using those and did not believe in them.

"Neurochemistry triggered by specific actions and behaviors themselves selected for through the millennia and reinforced by surrounding culture."

I like this as it spells out my theory.

The memory of those behaviors and actions can only be passed on by our DNA if what you say actually occurs. I do not think they actually exist.

I think our DNA gives us a framework and we fill in the rest via our Father Complex that has us look at what is around us in terms of leadership, best behavior and actions, in order that we may try to become the fittest.

Those behaviors and actions are learned responses once the child is old enough. As babies we only have a framework for survival to work with. Survival is better served by cooperation and that is the framework we are born with.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:33 am
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Rory wrote:
Gnostic Bishop, from what I understand of the Oedipus and Electra complexes, the sexual desire directed toward the parent is not something that the child is consciously self-aware of - so for that reason, you would never encounter a woman who remembers being self-aware of that state. I haven't taken the time to study Freud or Psychology in general so I have no idea whether or not the theory is accurate.

As for the Stockholm complex, it is obviously presented as a complex or aberration, but who makes that judgment call? For all we know, the captive might genuinely appreciate one or more aspects of the captor's personality while not approving of their other actions or overall personality. If you spend enough time with someone you are bound to find at least one thing that you like about them.


For sure and from the little I know of that complex the abuser knows what strings to pull.

As to the Oedipus and Electra complexes and our subconscious, I don't know if we even have a subconscious, super sub-conscience or the id that Freud also spoke of and would have to exist to prove his theory.

I do believe that we do not always use all of our minds and my apotheosis showed me dramatically how we think when both hemispheres kick in together but that is not quite the same as the various consciousness' or sub-consciousness' mentioned.

https://www.ted.com/talks/iain_mcgilchr ... ided_brain

I am still puzzled by my wife's anecdotal story of hiding or burying an unpleasant memory that a psychiatrist pulled out of her many years ago now. Where and how that memory was stored I cannot say.

Her an I also shared a telepathic experience together that I initiated surprising both of us.

We still have a lot to learn about how we think.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 1:35 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The memory of those behaviors and actions can only be passed on by our DNA

You appear to be referring to Lamarkianism, which was ALSO largely dismissed as nonsense long ago. It's akin to arguing that me applying a bunch of bronzer to my skin will result in me having tanner babies when I reproduce later in life.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I think our DNA gives us a framework and we fill in the rest via our Father Complex..l

As noted earlier in the thread, both the father and mother complexes have largely been dismissed as nonsense. Continuing to use them as the base of your position does you no favors, nor does merely repeating yourself magically add any validity to your points.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
As to the Oedipus and Electra complexes and our subconscious, I don't know if we even have a subconscious, super sub-conscience or the id that Freud also spoke of ...

There are a great many things that occur within our brains outside of conscious awareness, but here again Freud's notions have largely been shown to be wrong, little more than interesting conjectures and remedial frameworks that fall apart under even the most basic scrutiny.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:37 am
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The memory of those behaviors and actions can only be passed on by our DNA

You appear to be referring to Lamarkianism, which was ALSO largely dismissed as nonsense long ago. It's akin to arguing that me applying a bunch of bronzer to my skin will result in me having tanner babies when I reproduce later in life.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
I think our DNA gives us a framework and we fill in the rest via our Father Complex..l

As noted earlier in the thread, both the father and mother complexes have largely been dismissed as nonsense. Continuing to use them as the base of your position does you no favors, nor does merely repeating yourself magically add any validity to your points.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
As to the Oedipus and Electra complexes and our subconscious, I don't know if we even have a subconscious, super sub-conscience or the id that Freud also spoke of ...

There are a great many things that occur within our brains outside of conscious awareness, but here again Freud's notions have largely been shown to be wrong, little more than interesting conjectures and remedial frameworks that fall apart under even the most basic scrutiny.


It is quite easy to throw all theories out without offering anything else.

DNA research in birds show that even if separated from their parents, chicks know by instinct and DNA where their migration roots are.

That is also how we humans get the framework to seek the highest human ideals so that we might be the fittest of our breed.

That higher ideal Freud called the Father Complex. He may not have tied it into evolution but I have.

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 12:32 pm
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Lamarckism

"Honey, what are you doing? Your waters just broke... we need to get you to the hospital, NOW"

"Oh, I know sweetie, just applying some make up. I want my baby to come out bootiful!"

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 9:02 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
It is quite easy to throw all theories out without offering anything else.

The ideas of Freud which you continue to reference HAVE been replaced by other / better ideas. That's why it's so easy to dismiss them. I'm sorry you're not aware of the work that's happened in this field in the more than 100 years since Freud was around speculating while high on cocaine. There are some great resources available these days to educate ourselves.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
That higher ideal Freud called the Father Complex. He may not have tied it into evolution but I have.

I must say, I've had more productive discussions with potted plants than I've had with you.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:20 pm
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It's a strange world that makes 'stomata' a term of offence

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SkinWalker
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 2:36 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Then why are you in the religion forum?


This isn't a religion forum.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:10 pm
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SkinWalker wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Then why are you in the religion forum?


This isn't a religion forum.


Board index ‹ Social Sciences ‹ Scientific Study of Religion

That is the board title and it definitely says religion.

If it did not I would not likely be here.

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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 3:45 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Board index ‹ Social Sciences ‹ Scientific Study of Religion

As an exercise, I recommend reading aloud the blue coloured portion of the subforum name you see above.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
That is the board title and it definitely says religion.

As part of the four worded title of the subforum name.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:15 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Board index ‹ Social Sciences ‹ Scientific Study of Religion

As an exercise, I recommend reading aloud the blue coloured portion of the subforum name you see above.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
That is the board title and it definitely says religion.

As part of the four worded title of the subforum name.


Ignore the title of the forum all you like. I am done with this stupid issue.

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DL


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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:21 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Ignore the title of the forum all you like.

I/We have not ignored anything. The name of this forum board is "The Science Forum". The name of this subforum is "Scientific Study of Religion".

Have you done the exercise I've recommended? It can be really helpful.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:49 pm
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My guess is that Gnostic Bishop is developing the hypothesis that God as portrayed in the Bible is a hypocrite and that GB is using an evidence-based approach to explore that hypothesis. scoobydoo1 you might have noticed that most of the threads and subfora actually don't contain hard science but the incremental advancement of ideas through group discussion. So far few people have complained about that.

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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:46 am
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Rory wrote:
My guess is that Gnostic Bishop is developing the hypothesis that God as portrayed in the Bible is a hypocrite and that GB is using an evidence-based approach to explore that hypothesis.

Literary analysis of a piece of literary (if you consider the torah and the bible pieces of literature) detailing an entity of doubtful existence wouldn't qualify as a scientific study of... much as the literary analysis of the Hellenic literature - Iliad similarly does not.

Rory wrote:
you might have noticed that most of the threads and subfora actually don't contain hard science but the incremental advancement of ideas through group discussion. So far few people have complained about that.

You are correct. Few people have indeed brought it up. However, that neither changes the Full name of the subforum, nor what SkinWalker and myself have tried to point out to G.B.


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:59 am
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Perhaps we should change the name of this subforum to Thor's Lightning Rod. It's catchy, right? (although, perhaps slightly pornographic). This section is a bit like the flypaper of the board, in place to keep the more nutritious morsels elsewhere on the board free of disease and rot.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:30 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
Rory wrote:
My guess is that Gnostic Bishop is developing the hypothesis that God as portrayed in the Bible is a hypocrite and that GB is using an evidence-based approach to explore that hypothesis.

Literary analysis of a piece of literary (if you consider the torah and the bible pieces of literature) detailing an entity of doubtful existence wouldn't qualify as a scientific study of... much as the literary analysis of the Hellenic literature - Iliad similarly does not.
.


"an entity of doubtful existence".

Doubtful !!

If he does exist, as usually described, then he is quite the prick.

I am a Gnostic Christian. I am God but am more responsible and good than the demiurge.

The only God fit to rule men and women is a man or a woman. That is how it has always been and all we have ever had. Who but a man or woman can express the will of God?

There have always only been men and women of good hearts able to express God’s real will.

Like Jesus and his wife who preached to seek God perpetually even after finding a bit of him or her within the self. We are to perpetually raise the bar of excellence for ourselves and our God.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:35 pm
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iNow wrote:
Perhaps we should change the name of this subforum to Thor's Lightning Rod. It's catchy, right? (although, perhaps slightly pornographic). This section is a bit like the flypaper of the board, in place to keep the more nutritious morsels elsewhere on the board free of disease and rot.


Then you would miss out on discussions of how and why so many seek or believe in a God.

Many social scientists are hard at it trying to dither that out so that the masses can be moved to better healthier thinking, but I guess that you do not care about having your tax dollars subsidise the disease you describe.

If we could correct religious thinking, a lot of jihadists would disappear, so the importance of getting to the bottom of religion is quite apparent.

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DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:11 am
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You seem to start with the premise that religion and/or gods are needed, though need to be updated/corrected to better align with your personally preferred version. I cutout the unnecessary middleman and challenge the premise that religion and/gods are needed at all.

Btw - I wouldn't miss "discussions of how and why so many people seek or believe in a God" as you suggest. I've studied it fairly extensively, have a firm understanding of the myriad factors involved, and have largely exhausted my interest in that particular topic at this point.

FWIW, I also disagree with your assertion that a mere change in the subforum label would in any way affect the frequency of these discussions.

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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 3:12 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
...

Regards
DL

None of what you have said and/or proposed in all your posts in this thread qualifies as a scientific study of...

Now, do you have anything at all to present that in any way - may change this shortcoming/oversight?


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:32 am
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The point of a Science Forum isn't for 100% of the content to be novel primary research data/hard science. It would not be feasible for each of us to conduct primary research on each and every topic discussed - that leaves literature review, data analysis and discussion of ideas. If it were purely about primary research then this would be a scientific journal rather than a Science Forum.

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scoobydoo1
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:27 am
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Rory wrote:
The point of a Science Forum isn't for 100% of the content to be novel primary research data/hard science. It would not be feasible for each of us to conduct primary research on each and every topic discussed - that leaves literature review, data analysis and discussion of ideas.

True and true. No disagreements here.

Rory wrote:
If it were purely about primary research then this would be a scientific journal rather than a Science Forum.

However, G.B.'s opening posts and all subsequent posts (a total of eighteen posts after the opening one) did not remotely make such an attempt at the genre's literature, and even had it did, a literary analysis and/or criticism of characters actions in any literature does not qualify as a Science or even an attempt at it.

I invite you to re-read G.B.'s opening post on page one and make a list of the questions asked there. You may also briefly run through G.B.'s other eighteen posts in this thread alone, and determine whether anything resembling an attempt was made. If you like, I can provide that very list of G.B.'s questions from the opening post below.


Q1. Does God follow his WORD?
Q2. Or is it --- do as I say and not as I do?
Q3. If we are to emulate God as scriptures say we should, should we too ignore his WORD the way he does?
Q4. Which example should we follow; what God says or what God does?
Q5. Should we follow God, --- or his advice and WORD?

Does any of the above resemble questions on a subject that relates to science?


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:04 pm
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iNow wrote:
Quote:
You seem to start with the premise that religion and/or gods are needed, though need to be updated/corrected to better align with your personally preferred version. I cutout the unnecessary middleman and challenge the premise that religion and/gods are needed at all.


Your interest may be appeased but did you learn why so many seek or claim to have found a God?

You do not seem to like the reasons I have offered, our looking to be the fittest and appeasing our groupish instincts so I am eager to know what you think so many people seek Gods and religions.

Quote:
Btw - I wouldn't miss "discussions of how and why so many people seek or believe in a God" as you suggest. I've studied it fairly extensively, have a firm understanding of the myriad factors involved, and have largely exhausted my interest in that particular topic at this point.


Display your understanding for us please.

FWIW, I also disagree with your assertion that a mere change in the subforum label would in any way affect the frequency of these discussions.


I don't recall suggesting a change. The label is fine as far as I can see.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:07 pm
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scoobydoo1 wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
...

Regards
DL

None of what you have said and/or proposed in all your posts in this thread qualifies as a scientific study of...

Now, do you have anything at all to present that in any way - may change this shortcoming/oversight?


The science is the psychological aspects of Christians following a God who does not follow his own rules and dictates.

I guess that that speaks to the depth of delusion people can talk themselves into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNSe4Ff ... r_embedded

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Does God follow his WORD? Or is it --- do as I say and n  |  Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 1:12 pm
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Rory wrote:
The point of a Science Forum isn't for 100% of the content to be novel primary research data/hard science. It would not be feasible for each of us to conduct primary research on each and every topic discussed - that leaves literature review, data analysis and discussion of ideas. If it were purely about primary research then this would be a scientific journal rather than a Science Forum.


+ 1

Too many try to get too much from chat rooms. Those who do wish to do primary research should us the P M to do so as only a few individuals would likely be interested.

Some details are needed to expand/explain ideas but we should try to remember the old 6 inch rule for posts. Way too many make posts that are way too long.

Regards
DL


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