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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politici  |  Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:16 am
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Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this politician serious?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... 2ED8A8RXeY

The apostle’s creed shows that Christianity is based on having to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that the guilty should be forgiven if a suitable human sacrifice is made to God.

I suggest that having another innocent person suffer for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. Immoral regardless of the victim volunteering or not which is not the case with Jesus.

That is one of many moral tenets that have cause secular governments to reject Judeo-Christian culture and values.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dx7irFN2gdI

The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God and no moral man would every push to have Judeo-Christian culture and values implemented as our law. The U.S. is the closes to that ideal and their jail statistics are the most dismal in the free world.

Would you promote Judeo-Christian culture and values?

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:11 am
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Please don't use this site to be intentionally inflammatory and inciteful. You are encouraged to turn this thread into something more thought provoking or encouraging of mature dialog (not just bashing and/or ranting and bloggish), otherwise I'll lock it.

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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:53 am
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"Thank God our ancestral representatives murdered possibly the most compassionate man to have walked the Earth. Now let's decorate our homes and cathedrals to remind us that, no matter how bad life gets, we can conspire to destroy an innocent scapegoat."

Correct, Gnostic Bishop - no good person in their right mind would look to Christianity for moral instruction.

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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 6:39 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God

And also good acts by a loving God. As with all such books, how you interpret it - and what you take away from it - is what matters.

If you base your morality on Leviticus? I would not support you as a politician (or any kind of moral leader.)
Base your morality on the Sermon on the Mount? I'd be all for that sort of morality as a politician.

(Same would go for the Talmud, the Vedas, the Koran . . . any religious work.)


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:19 pm
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There's no doubting that Christianity has considerable moral flexibility - the question is, does that flexibility serve any useful purpose for society? I fear that the flexibility is merely a self-serving tactic to get the religious authorities out of hot water when the masses come to realise their draconian brutality - then they can say, "but, we preach the Sermon on the Mount..."

The way I see it, you have to judge the entire morality as one intact (though, admittedly, contradictory) whole. If you witnessed on the street, a man shoot a stranger at close range, just after he has helped an old lady across the street, would you ignore the former act and say "by golly he's a nice chap"?

Don't get me wrong, there are some wonderful moral Christians out there, but they almost always were indoctrinated into it during childhood, and I can't help feeling, that if they had been left intellectually unmolested until adulthood they not only would not have selected Christianity, but would be equally wonderful moral peope. At best religion is a distraction - at worst it is lethal.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:50 pm
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iNow wrote:
Please don't use this site to be intentionally inflammatory and inciteful. You are encouraged to turn this thread into something more thought provoking or encouraging of mature dialog (not just bashing and/or ranting and bloggish), otherwise I'll lock it.


I do hope to make people compare Christianity and Islamic methods for indoctrination.

If people think that inflammatory, they have a point but should embrace the knowledge.

It is meant to burn away the Christian fog from the eyes of intelligent people.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:51 pm
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Rory wrote:
"Thank God our ancestral representatives murdered possibly the most compassionate man to have walked the Earth. Now let's decorate our homes and cathedrals to remind us that, no matter how bad life gets, we can conspire to destroy an innocent scapegoat."

Correct, Gnostic Bishop - no good person in their right mind would look to Christianity for moral instruction.


You see 20/20.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:55 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
The bible is a compilation of evil acts by a satanic God

And also good acts by a loving God. As with all such books, how you interpret it - and what you take away from it - is what matters.

If you base your morality on Leviticus? I would not support you as a politician (or any kind of moral leader.)
Base your morality on the Sermon on the Mount? I'd be all for that sort of morality as a politician.

(Same would go for the Talmud, the Vedas, the Koran . . . any religious work.)



The Sermon on the Mount hardly makes up for the huge numbers of murders by the bible God.

Most of the Sermon on the Mount is un-workable rhetoric and much of it's sayings are immoral when looking closely at them.

Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Not quite a non-judgemental Jesus. Right?

Regards
DL


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kojax
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 5:18 am
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Not quite a non-judgemental Jesus. Right?

Regards
DL


You're kidding right? That quote is from a parable. Jesus was telling a story about a very viscious and cruel tyrant of a king, and that is supposed to be part of what the king said to his servants.

That is obvious from the context. You don't need to be a "bible scholar" to see that.

It can only very questionably be considered to be a statement about the actual will of god.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:07 pm
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kojax wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Luke 19:27 But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.

Not quite a non-judgemental Jesus. Right?

Regards
DL


You're kidding right? That quote is from a parable. Jesus was telling a story about a very viscious and cruel tyrant of a king, and that is supposed to be part of what the king said to his servants.

That is obvious from the context. You don't need to be a "bible scholar" to see that.

It can only very questionably be considered to be a statement about the actual will of god.


Not so.

Is what is portrayed in that quote not exactly what is to happen at end times as well as when God pours hell into the lake of fire?

In fact, at that time, we do not get to choose but are just destroyed instead of cured.

Strange that God would rather kill than cure.

Gnostic Christianity is a Universalist religion and superior to Christianity with a God who murders a lot of souls that he says he loves.

Regards
DL


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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:07 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Most of the Sermon on the Mount is un-workable rhetoric and much of it's sayings are immoral when looking closely at them.

Then I would likely not support you as a politician.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:25 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Most of the Sermon on the Mount is un-workable rhetoric and much of it's sayings are immoral when looking closely at them.

Then I would likely not support you as a politician.


Yet you do not argue against.

I would not want your vote.

Regards
DL


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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 6:49 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Yet you do not argue against.

Do not argue against what? The sermon on the mount? Correct, I do not.
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I would not want your vote.

Then no problems there.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:29 pm
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But what would we do without seasonal chocolate eggs and Xbox's?

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:26 pm
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Rory wrote:
But what would we do without seasonal chocolate eggs and Xbox's?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfResyFrqlM

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 3:29 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Yet you do not argue against.

Do not argue against what? The sermon on the mount? Correct, I do not.
Quote:
I would not want your vote.

Then no problems there.


You do not argue against the fact that most of that sermon is un-workable rhetoric.

Can you love your neighbor as yourself? Even when you do not know him?

Do you love the neighbor who rapes his own children? As I said, un-workable rhetoric.

Regards
DL


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Falconer360
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:53 pm
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Rory wrote:
But what would we do without seasonal chocolate eggs and Xbox's?

It would be a very sad time obviously.

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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 3:59 am

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
You do not argue against the fact that most of that sermon is un-workable rhetoric.

Nor do you argue that the US Constitution has some contradictory and unworkable rhetoric.
Quote:
Can you love your neighbor as yourself?

I can't, although I try. The world would be a better place if more people could do that.
Quote:
Do you love the neighbor who rapes his own children?

Nope. Ideally I'd be able to hate what he did without hating him - but then, I'm not perfect.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:39 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
You do not argue against the fact that most of that sermon is un-workable rhetoric.

Nor do you argue that the US Constitution has some contradictory and unworkable rhetoric.
Quote:
Can you love your neighbor as yourself?

I can't, although I try. The world would be a better place if more people could do that.
Quote:
Do you love the neighbor who rapes his own children?

Nope. Ideally I'd be able to hate what he did without hating him - but then, I'm not perfect.


We are all the best we can be at any given point in time. I call it evolving perfection. But that aside.

One cannot separate a criminal from his crime.

Regards
DL


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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:49 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
One cannot separate a criminal from his crime.

Of course we can.

I have a friend who is fighting alcoholism. She's been in jail a few times for driving drunk. I still don't hate her, even though I hate the idea of her putting other people at risk by driving drunk.


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:32 pm
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
One cannot separate a criminal from his crime.

Of course we can.

I have a friend who is fighting alcoholism. She's been in jail a few times for driving drunk. I still don't hate her, even though I hate the idea of her putting other people at risk by driving drunk.


Don't hate her is not the same as love her.

Thanks for making my point.

How can you love someone you do not even respect?

Recognize that you are spouting un-workable rhetoric which you have just shown doe snot work.

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:01 pm
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If you refrain from hating somebody despite their negative actions then logically it follows that you must refrain from loving somebody despite their positive actions.

The core of the problem relates to identity: what is the self? Is it all of one's actions, thoughts, speech, desires? (Well, these are muddied by circumstances beyond the control of the individual). Is it the fundamental humanity? (Well, that is merely the product of evolution, of which no individual is the responsible author). Is it personality or disposition? (Well, that is mostly the result of parental influence). What is left? Nothing much. I am beginning to think that there is no such thing as the self: there is only bits of biological material judging other bits of biological material with all of it swirling under natural forces bigger than any of the judgements.

I can relate to loving somebody while not condoning their behaviour. I loved my ex-boyfriend and was in two separate relationships with him (5 years apart). He had changed the second time and I did not agree with all of his actions or viewpoints but I still saw in him the innocent fresh-faced 17 year old I once loved. It's like he got lost in a way that I could not fix. I am not in contact with him anymore and will never be but, wherever he is, I hope he is spiritually okay.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 11:58 pm
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Rory wrote:
If you refrain from hating somebody despite their negative actions then logically it follows that you must refrain from loving somebody despite their positive actions.

The core of the problem relates to identity: what is the self? Is it all of one's actions, thoughts, speech, desires? (Well, these are muddied by circumstances beyond the control of the individual). Is it the fundamental humanity? (Well, that is merely the product of evolution, of which no individual is the responsible author). Is it personality or disposition? (Well, that is mostly the result of parental influence). What is left? Nothing much. I am beginning to think that there is no such thing as the self: there is only bits of biological material judging other bits of biological material with all of it swirling under natural forces bigger than any of the judgements.

I can relate to loving somebody while not condoning their behaviour. I loved my ex-boyfriend and was in two separate relationships with him (5 years apart). He had changed the second time and I did not agree with all of his actions or viewpoints but I still saw in him the innocent fresh-faced 17 year old I once loved. It's like he got lost in a way that I could not fix. I am not in contact with him anymore and will never be but, wherever he is, I hope he is spiritually okay.


If we could love everyone, then no one would be special. Right?

Or do we then just start saying that there are varying levels of love and some are real close to hate?

Love those who deserve it and hate those who deserve it is the way to live. Not to foolishly try to love those who are not worthy.

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:10 am
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But how can you say that anybody deserves love or hatred?

What component of the person is truly and uniquely autonomous?

The origin isn't; the biology isn't; the thought patterns aren't; the behaviour isn't.

There is nothing left.

So beware that if you say "I love Sally", you are only saying "I love the combination of circumstances beyond Sally's control that happened by coincidence to form her out of stardust and the Laws of Physics".

That is about as wise as loving a wooden desk.

And yet I am equally foolish and will love because I am programmed to do so.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:21 pm
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Rory wrote:
But how can you say that anybody deserves love or hatred?

What component of the person is truly and uniquely autonomous?

The origin isn't; the biology isn't; the thought patterns aren't; the behaviour isn't.

There is nothing left.

So beware that if you say "I love Sally", you are only saying "I love the combination of circumstances beyond Sally's control that happened by coincidence to form her out of stardust and the Laws of Physics".

That is about as wise as loving a wooden desk.

And yet I am equally foolish and will love because I am programmed to do so.


How strange. You think that love is a uni-directional thing that is complete if only one person is into it.

Ask your spouse if love takes one or two before it is true love?

Anything less than reciprocal emotions is not love.

Being in love alone is not possible.

As to your programming, have a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBW5vdhr_PA

Did that baby make its choice from love or from survival instincts?

Correct. Instincts to survive. Love is a learned response and we teach that love takes two to be a true love.

Regards
DL


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:07 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Love is a learned response and we teach that love takes two to be a true love.

Only if one uses a very narrow definition and has no understanding of the underlying neurochemistry and selection pressures at play...

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:58 pm
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Love is a learned response and we teach that love takes two to be a true love.

Only if one uses a very narrow definition and has no understanding of the underlying neurochemistry and selection pressures at play...


Masturbation is not like making love with another.

Getting exited with another is much better than getting excited alone. If you cannot tell the difference then you do not know true love as compared to infatuation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuG_fTwoUoU

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:19 pm
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I never said anything about the reciprocity of love (in this thread). Even if two people loved each other mutually it is still difficult to distinguish the entity they are loving versus the background circumstances. E.g. if Sally loves John and John loves Sally, then John is still only loving the combination of circumstances that made and make Sally; Sally is not responsible for her own genome or parental influence which make up most of who she is - so how can you attribute those positive factors to Sally?

Also - it is not possible to teach the physiological love response.

Masturbation is safer than sex btw. If you had sex every single time you couldn't bear to ignore the hormones any longer then you would be putting yourself needlessly at a substantially higher risk of unwanted pregnancy, STIs and possibly emotional and psychological trauma. Gonnorhoea is not sexy (or easy to spell).

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:08 pm
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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Masturbation is not like making love with another.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Getting exited with another is much better than getting excited alone.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If you cannot tell the difference then you do not know true love as compared to infatuation.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.

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billvon
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:22 pm

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Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Don't hate her is not the same as love her.

Correct. You said "One cannot separate a criminal from his crime." Of course we can. You can hate a crime and not hate the person who committed it. You can even hate a crime and love someone who committed it.
Quote:
How can you love someone you do not even respect?

Parents do it often. I have people in my family I love but do not respect based on their previous actions.
Quote:
Recognize that you are spouting un-workable rhetoric which you have just shown doe snot work.

It may not work for you. It would be a mistake for you to try to impose your morality on others, though.


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:50 pm
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The reason for the lack of respect often impacts upon the ability or inability to feel love for a person. For example, I love certain members of my family even though I regard some of their decisions or even their entire approach to life as misguided or outright foolish - while they sometimes cause harm to their self or others, in general it is not intentional. I don't think I would be capable of loving somebody for whom I lack respect due to their blatantly malevolent nature.

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 1:58 am
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Rory wrote:
I never said anything about the reciprocity of love (in this thread). Even if two people loved each other mutually it is still difficult to distinguish the entity they are loving versus the background circumstances. E.g. if Sally loves John and John loves Sally, then John is still only loving the combination of circumstances that made and make Sally; Sally is not responsible for her own genome or parental influence which make up most of who she is - so how can you attribute those positive factors to Sally?

Also - it is not possible to teach the physiological love response.

Masturbation is safer than sex btw. If you had sex every single time you couldn't bear to ignore the hormones any longer then you would be putting yourself needlessly at a substantially higher risk of unwanted pregnancy, STIs and possibly emotional and psychological trauma. Gonnorhoea is not sexy (or easy to spell).


" Also - it is not possible to teach the physiological love response."

Actually, they can. I do not have a link but say it on T.V. as a part of a medical program.

It is still better though when their are two and not just the one practicing alone.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:00 am
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iNow wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Masturbation is not like making love with another.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Getting exited with another is much better than getting excited alone.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
If you cannot tell the difference then you do not know true love as compared to infatuation.

A valid opinion, but hardly an indisputable fact.


True that my brush is wide but if you are not f that color, I do not want you to love me. It would not be a true love.

Regards
DL


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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 2:02 am
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billvon wrote:
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Don't hate her is not the same as love her.

Correct. You said "One cannot separate a criminal from his crime." Of course we can. You can hate a crime and not hate the person who committed it. You can even hate a crime and love someone who committed it.
Quote:
How can you love someone you do not even respect?

Parents do it often. I have people in my family I love but do not respect based on their previous actions.
Quote:
Recognize that you are spouting un-workable rhetoric which you have just shown doe snot work.

It may not work for you. It would be a mistake for you to try to impose your morality on others, though.


Good luck with loving those you do not respect.

Regards
DL


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Rory
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 8:34 am
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Okay, you can teach the physiological love response in abstract terms but you cannot (short of a perversion on the part of the learner) actually induce somebody to have the physiological love response just by teaching the response in an abstract way (blackboard and chalk).

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Gnostic Bishop
Post  Post subject: Re: Embrace Judeo-Christian culture and values! Is this poli  |  Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2015 4:22 pm
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Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 7:25 pm
Posts: 292

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Rory wrote:
Okay, you can teach the physiological love response in abstract terms but you cannot (short of a perversion on the part of the learner) actually induce somebody to have the physiological love response just by teaching the response in an abstract way (blackboard and chalk).


Got me on something I know little about.

With our minds being so plastic. I do not know what the limits are.

I did read Jay Ingram's book on the mind but he was not aware of our limits or exactly how the mind works either.

Regards
DL


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