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jimmydasaint
Post  Post subject: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Thu Jan 02, 2014 11:17 pm
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This is taking us one step closer to a Police State in my opinion:

Quote:
Devices that fire microwave blasts, scrambling cars' onboard computers, could soon allow the authorities to rein in suspect vehicles

IMAGINE you could disable a car remotely just by pressing a button. It's not a distant dream: devices that use radio waves to disrupt the control computers of modern cars are already in the pipeline. Police will be able to use them to halt suspect vehicles in their tracks.

At the request of police in France, Spain and Germany, a European Commission-funded consortium is developing such a device. Meanwhile, electronics firm E2V of Chelmsford, UK, is developing a similar system for both the police and the military, and successfully tested its technology last week.

Europe has given €4.3 million to the SAVELEC (Safe Control of Noncooperative Vehicles Through Electromagnetic Means) project. As part of this, engineers at the German Aerospace Center DLR in Stuttgart have pored over automotive Engine Control Units (ECUs) to identify vulnerabilities in microchips that can be exploited using radio signals. The electronics and portable antennas that will transmit those signals are being designed at IMST, a German radio antenna research lab in Kamp-Lintfort. At MBDA, the French missile maker based near Paris, staff are running simulations with large groups of volunteers drivers to gauge how they react when cars cut out at speed.


http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029475.200-police-could-use-radio-waves-to-bring-cars-to-a-halt.html

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bunbury
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:10 am
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Police have other ways of stopping cars. This method seems less dangerous to uninvolved bystanders or motorists than high speed chases, shooting at tires or throwing down tire puncturing devices onto public roads. Why is an electronic means more sinister than old fashioned mechanical means?


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 3:26 pm
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Bunbury asks a very good question, IMO. That could be an excellent path of conversation.

Also, I'm curious how police state is being defined as many would argue we're already there in several cities here in the US. It was a pretty hot topic of conversation last year in Boston, for example, after the marathon bombing. The Boston police department came out with some very heavy machinery and vehicles/weapons that looked like they better belonged in Iraq or Afghanistan.

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Olinguito
Post  Post subject: Re: Police can use radiowaves to halt cars  |  Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:26 pm
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I read about such technology in The Lost Symbol by Dan Brown.

[spoiler alert]
In that novel a microwave scrambling device was fired at a computer to stop an email from being sent after the sender had pressed the “send” button.
[/spoiler alert]

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Hannah40
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 5:05 am
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This tech is known as Engine Jamming.
I'm not sure if its a mainstream tool for Police as of yet but certainly the military know of it's capabilities.
When people tell me they don't believe in energy weapons or laser tech, they should think on.

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 1:59 pm
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Hannah40 wrote:
This tech is known as Engine Jamming.
I'm not sure if its a mainstream tool for Police as of yet but certainly the military know of it's capabilities.
When people tell me they don't believe in energy weapons or laser tech, they should think on.

Citation?

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Dywyddyr
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:48 pm
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The SAVELEC project concluded last year (funding ended).
The final result was a "bread board" device that "demonstrated the feasibility" of the idea.
"Feasible", from an engineering POV, can mean many things, but I'd imagine that chucking an EMP at cars in an urban environment could lead to all sorts of unintended consequences. Especially if there's any sideband leakage, overshoot or misses...
Oh, and with nine different countries involved I'd say the political/ legal "fallout" is probably even more suspect.


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Hannah40
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:38 am
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Dywyddyr wrote:
The SAVELEC project concluded last year (funding ended).
The final result was a "bread board" device that "demonstrated the feasibility" of the idea.
"Feasible", from an engineering POV, can mean many things, but I'd imagine that chucking an EMP at cars in an urban environment could lead to all sorts of unintended consequences. Especially if there's any sideband leakage, overshoot or misses...
Oh, and with nine different countries involved I'd say the political/ legal "fallout" is probably even more suspect.


Thanks.


However, I find it difficult to believe that such a technology would be retired. I'd think they will carry on using it without our knowledge or consent. Because after all, we don't need to know.

Same with Project MK Ultra. Supposedly ended in 1973 but it is still practiced today in some forms. Just not known as MK Ultra.

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Dywyddyr
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 9:30 am
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Hannah40 wrote:
However, I find it difficult to believe that such a technology would be retired.

You can't retire a device (or technology) that never went into use in the first place,

Quote:
I'd think they will carry on using it without our knowledge or consent.

How can they "carry on using it" when ALL that's been produced so far is a bread board device (i.e. a laboratory conditions "lash-up" of unspecified size and power usage)?

Quote:
Because after all, we don't need to know.

Right. Because coppers pointing a thing at a moving car which then comes to a halt (and very probably requires expensive replacement of parts) isn't at all noticeable.

Quote:
Same with Project MK Ultra. Supposedly ended in 1973 but it is still practiced today in some forms. Just not known as MK Ultra.

Unsupported claim.


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Hannah40
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:11 pm
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Dywyddyr wrote:
Hannah40 wrote:
However, I find it difficult to believe that such a technology would be retired.

You can't retire a device (or technology) that never went into use in the first place,

Quote:
I'd think they will carry on using it without our knowledge or consent.

How can they "carry on using it" when ALL that's been produced so far is a bread board device (i.e. a laboratory conditions "lash-up" of unspecified size and power usage)?

Quote:
Because after all, we don't need to know.

Right. Because coppers pointing a thing at a moving car which then comes to a halt (and very probably requires expensive replacement of parts) isn't at all noticeable.

Quote:
Same with Project MK Ultra. Supposedly ended in 1973 but it is still practiced today in some forms. Just not known as MK Ultra.

Unsupported claim.



I've said it to you before and I will say it again.
Just because somebody doesn't have the evidence, doesn't necessitate they are wrong.


The evidence might be all around you.
Only, you might not be aware. Yet.

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Dywyddyr
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:21 pm
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Hannah40 wrote:
I've said it to you before and I will say it again.
Just because somebody doesn't have the evidence, doesn't necessitate they are wrong.

And this doesn't mean any more than it did the last time you said it.
If they have no evidence to support them then there's no reason at all to lend their claim any credence.

Quote:
The evidence might be all around you.
Only, you might not be aware. Yet.

If it can't be shown to be evidence then...


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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 3:21 pm
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Simplified (and the way I prefer to say it): That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

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Hannah40
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:06 pm
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iNow wrote:
Simplified (and the way I prefer to say it): That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Absolutely.

I quite like Mr Duck. He does his best to explain his reasons for disapproval.

However, I have been highlighting for a long time about invisible technology. Some tell me I'm mad, others say I'm attention seeking. Whatever.

Next time somebody wants to tell me I am.imagining things or my claims are not 'evidenced' then I ask they they do one small favour.

Next time they decide to heat something up in a Microwave, get a camera and take a photo through the glass and show us what is going on...

Oh. Wait. It's just a bit of food spinning round on a plate. Isn't it?

Well, yes and no.
You can see the plate moving (or in some cases, not). But can you see the evidence of the process as it is taking place?


I'll leave that one there!

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paleoichneum
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:22 pm
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Hannah40 wrote:
iNow wrote:
Simplified (and the way I prefer to say it): That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.


Absolutely.

I quite like Mr Duck. He does his best to explain his reasons for disapproval.

However, I have been highlighting for a long time about invisible technology. Some tell me I'm mad, others say I'm attention seeking. Whatever.

Next time somebody wants to tell me I am.imagining things or my claims are not 'evidenced' then I ask they they do one small favour.

Next time they decide to heat something up in a Microwave, get a camera and take a photo through the glass and show us what is going on...

Oh. Wait. It's just a bit of food spinning round on a plate. Isn't it?

Well, yes and no.
You can see the plate moving (or in some cases, not). But can you see the evidence of the process as it is taking place?


I'll leave that one there!


That analogy does not work Hannah. As there is full documentation of how,they work.

Your assertion of invisible tech, MUST be backed with evidence, YOU feel that it exists therefore the onus is on you to back those assertions,

Plus, with the amount of cellphone cameras out there, there is,No way video would not exist of this purported tech

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:37 pm
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Are we just talking about stuff like this?

https://www.wired.com/2016/08/jeep-hack ... ion-hacks/
Quote:
At the Black Hat security conference later this week, automotive cybersecurity researchers Charlie Miller and Chris Valasek will present a new arsenal of attacks against the same 2014 Jeep Cherokee they hacked in 2015. Last year, they remotely hacked into the car and paralyzed it on highway I-64—while I was driving in traffic. They could even disable the car's brakes at low speeds. By sending carefully crafted messages on the vehicle's internal network known as a CAN bus, they're now able to pull off even more dangerous, unprecedented tricks like causing unintended acceleration and slamming on the car's brakes or turning the vehicle's steering wheel at any speed. "Imagine last year if instead of cutting the transmission on the highway, we'd turned the wheel 180 degrees," says Chris Valasek. I can imagine. But he spells it out anyway. "You wouldn’t be on the phone with us. You’d be dead."
<...>
And make no mistake, auto hackers say: there will be another wireless car attack method found sooner or later.
"There will almost certainly continue to be remote vulnerabilities in the future," says Karl Koscher, a researcher at the University of California at San Diego who found one of the first car-hacking techniques for GM's Onstar in 2010. Miller and Valasek's latest work shows, he says, that "if you can get on the right CAN bus through those vulnerabilities, you can use these techniques to take pretty dramatic control of the car."

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Hannah40
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:58 am
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Thank you. @inow.

I would imagine it is done by using the same tech that we use to get into our vehicles. A remote key fob but over a longer range.

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iNow
Post  Post subject: Re: Police Can Use Radiowaves to Halt Cars  |  Posted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:47 pm
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And just to clarify, what specifically are you saying "happens" or "could happen?" Want to make sure I'm not misreading you.

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